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Oh give me a break. The average Walmart worker can't even add fractions or calculate a 20% discount in his head.
That's interesting. I know of two retired high school teachers and one former middle manager (lost her job) who work at our local Walmart. Are you casting aspersion on their mathematical abilities?
And how would you know? Or perhaps you prefer stereotyping to make your life views easier?
There are people busing tables, driving buses, working at Walmart and CVS and Starbucks....who have college degrees.
Who cares about jobs? Pay everybody a living minimum wage out of the aggregate national wealth, and then pay more money to those who work. Let everyone decide if they want to work for more money, or not. Want a cell phone and a big screen TV and eat tater tots and drive a new car? Get a job. Don't want to work your life away? Use a landline and watch an analog TV and peel potatoes and drive a car that a worker-bee threw away. People who want to work will produce everything desired by people who want to consume. All problems solved. And even more remarkable, people will be free to choose their own lifestyle in this supposedly free country.
To listen to you people, you'd think that God created jobs on the first day, and then had to create an earth full of people to do them.
Of course jobs were created on the first day. Somebody had to eat and get covered up
Analog TV is no longer available. I should know. I had to buy a converter box. Peeling potatoes for french fries has kept me skinny since it is time consuming and I don't do it often.
Where do kids and the things they need fit into all of this?
Is it possible that in order to have more jobs some may have to offer their services for a lower price and stop trying to cater to the people who can pay more?
If I live in a desirable place like NYC, is it possible that I offer skills at a different level than say somebody who lives in Corpus Christi, Tx? The better my skills the more I can charge and thus live in more desirable locations where people in general have more money.
I am just thinking of a relative of mine with incredible credentials in law. This lawyer found the first job as a lawyer in NYC and this was during the time lawyers were getting laid off. The spouse stays home with the child by choice. This lawyer came from a very humble background.
Of course jobs were created on the first day. Somebody had to eat and get covered up
Analog TV is no longer available. I should know. I had to buy a converter box. Peeling potatoes for french fries has kept me skinny since it is time consuming and I don't do it often.
Where do kids and the things they need fit into all of this?
Wasn't there fruit just lying on the ground? What's an apple? How did wild animals eat and get covered up?
My TV is analog. It works fine after the HD signal is converted. I did not need to work for the money to buy a new TV when HD came. Potatoes can be eaten without french-frying them. I boil mine with peels on.
What do kids need? iPods? XBox? Cellphones?
If you disagree with the principle of what I proposed, say so and explain your reasons. It is not helpful to nitpick my examples.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisan
If I live in a desirable place like NYC, is it possible that I offer skills at a different level than say somebody who lives in Corpus Christi, Tx? The better my skills the more I can charge and thus live in more desirable locations where people in general have more money.
.
I doubt if there is a single person in Corpus Christi TX who would rather live in NYC. Why do you think NYC is a more desirable place? Corpus Christi is one of the nicest cities in the south, livable, prosperous, progressive (in fact, elected a Democratic congressman), and it's rapid growth is mostly attributable to the influx of people trying to escape from places like NYC. Just to nitpick your example.
Wasn't there fruit just lying on the ground? What's an apple? How did wild animals eat and get covered up?
My TV is analog. It works fine after the HD signal is converted. I did not need to work for the money to buy a new TV when HD came. Potatoes can be eaten without french-frying them. I boil mine with peels on.
What do kids need? iPods? XBox? Cellphones?
If you disagree with the principle of what I proposed, say so and explain your reasons. It is not helpful to nitpick my examples.
I doubt if there is a single person in Corpus Christi TX who would rather live in NYC. Why do you think NYC is a more desirable place? Corpus Christi is one of the nicest cities in the south, livable, prosperous, progressive (in fact, elected a Democratic congressman), and it's rapid growth is mostly attributable to the influx of people trying to escape from places like NYC. Just to nitpick your example.
Oh, geez, jtur88, I am kidding around. I am not nitpicking to be rude. But since you asked for a reason why a living wage cannot be paid, I believe there is a simple reason. Natural resources are limited and even in the same category of natural resources, e.g. land, not all are of the same quality. Why should I pay a living wage for somebody that wants to live on the beach in South Florida, a very desirable place to live?
Sorry, but I have been on the Corpus Christi thread and have read quite a few complaints. So there is at least one person who doesn't like living there. I have defended the area quite well, I believe, like I would any other area.
. But since you asked for a reason why a living wage cannot be paid, I believe there is a simple reason. Natural resources are limited
Americans who have more than a living wage, sure don't act like resources are limited.
Here's an idea. What if we put a steep resource tax on everything that uses natural resources---and then used that tax to redistribute wealth to the jobless? Basically, we'd be recognizing that everyone owns the resources equally, and the users would have to buy the share from those who don't use them.
There are some states that have actually done that. Wyoming and Montana levy a severance tax on all the coal that is railroaded out of the state. The tax is used for public projects in the state, to offset some future date when that resource would be exhausted. When people in Kansas City turn on the lights, they are subsidizing public housing in Montana, where someday there will be no coal.
What is the answer???? Is a college education now a sick joke??
"As millions of jobs become obsolete because of technology and millions of other jobs are shipped overseas, our politicians tell us over and over that we can "compete" with anyone and that if we will just go out and get some more education we can make it happen. But those of us who are extremely over-educated know what a fraud that line is. The truth is that there are not nearly enough jobs for all of us no matter how "educated" we are. "
Used to be in 1961 most, if not all, television sets were made in America and before launching a trade war consider this 1961 ad for a black and white television. Union made, made in America.
What a deal, in 1961 you could purchase a new Zenith black and white television set for only $575.00!
So how much money was that in 1961? Factoring for inflation what cost $575.00 in 1961 would cost $4,078.21 in 2009.
$575.00 during a time when a job providing take home pay of $100.00/week was considered outstanding, very highly paid which it was.
So the question is do you want manufacturing to come back like days of old paying $4,000 for a television set or do you want that throw away model from Wal Mart for $200?
We also deal with robots something we didn't have 50 years ago.
Fascinating stuff, a few weeks ago I watched a program where a factory was operating almost entirely with robots. Most impressive was the robot that had "eyes" conducting quality control. A large bin box full of randomly placed parts would be set before the robot set there by another robot of course. The quality control robot would "look" into the box, recognize where to pick the part up, look it over and carefully stacking it 10 parts to a shipping box or discarding it. It never got tired, it never needed a break and would work 24/7/365 without a grumble. It didn't need lights to work and didn't care if it got to hot or to cold. Robots never filed a union grievance or compensation for a work related injury. After stacking 10 parts to a box yet another robot would place it on a shipping pallet, band wrap it then stick on labels before calling a robot operated fork lift to take the pallet load to shipping. And they are calling this the first generation of smart robots.
The developers envision a day where robots and a three man team of technicians will replace 1,000 workers in a 200,000 sq. ft. manufacturing facility.
1,000 workers costing $20/hr (this would be a $15 factory job) would run $40 million/year in payroll alone. In five years that would be $200 million dollars and for $200 million you can afford to buy some robots even if you do have to pay the operating/programming technicians $150k so what?
FYI I believe I am way conservative on that $15/hour factory job with the actual cost per hour being closer to $30/hr and not the $20/hr. Wanted to avoid an argument.
So do we face our futures or turn back the clock paying $4,000 for a television set?
Used to be in 1961 most, if not all, television sets were made in America and before launching a trade war consider this 1961 ad for a black and white television. Union made, made in America.
What a deal, in 1961 you could purchase a new Zenith black and white television set for only $575.00!
So how much money was that in 1961? Factoring for inflation what cost $575.00 in 1961 would cost $4,078.21 in 2009.
$575.00 during a time when a job providing take home pay of $100.00/week was considered outstanding, very highly paid which it was.
So the question is do you want manufacturing to come back like days of old paying $4,000 for a television set or do you want that throw away model from Wal Mart for $200?
We also deal with robots something we didn't have 50 years ago.
Fascinating stuff, a few weeks ago I watched a program where a factory was operating almost entirely with robots. Most impressive was the robot that had "eyes" conducting quality control. A large bin box full of randomly placed parts would be set before the robot set there by another robot of course. The quality control robot would "look" into the box, recognize where to pick the part up, look it over and carefully stacking it 10 parts to a shipping box or discarding it. It never got tired, it never needed a break and would work 24/7/365 without a grumble. It didn't need lights to work and didn't care if it got to hot or to cold. Robots never filed a union grievance or compensation for a work related injury. After stacking 10 parts to a box yet another robot would place it on a shipping pallet, band wrap it then stick on labels before calling a robot operated fork lift to take the pallet load to shipping. And they are calling this the first generation of smart robots.
The developers envision a day where robots and a three man team of technicians will replace 1,000 workers in a 200,000 sq. ft. manufacturing facility.
1,000 workers costing $20/hr (this would be a $15 factory job) would run $40 million/year in payroll alone. In five years that would be $200 million dollars and for $200 million you can afford to buy some robots even if you do have to pay the operating/programming technicians $150k so what?
FYI I believe I am way conservative on that $15/hour factory job with the actual cost per hour being closer to $30/hr and not the $20/hr. Wanted to avoid an argument.
So do we face our futures or turn back the clock paying $4,000 for a television set?
This is the ambush waiting in the dark that we haven't gotten to but certainly will. Then the two dollar a day worker will be out of a job too. And those three techs will have thousands vying for their jobs. We have surplus people now and just imagine then.
The Japanese are working full speed ahead on artifical intelligence. Their robots are more than just robots, they employ fuzzy logic and use programming that learns. This is the beginning of true aritifical thought. They are also working hard on visually perfect robots who are intended to work as receptionists and minor clerical workers. They look very real and are intended to replace human workers in that kind of jobs.
When Discovery runs That's Impossible on cybernetics or robots, don't remember the title, check it out. These are largely still in the lab but are the things to come.
What do we do for and with all the people who will have no place when the factory jobs are over and technology continues to creap upward into the labor pool? We will have to redefine worth in some other terms.
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