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With the failure of Wonder Bread the futility of Unions asking for higher wages in the US is well illustrated.
The traditional things unions do to get higher wages don’t work so well in the modern era of outsourcing and mass automation. If everyone in the world made as much per hour as we do then it wouldn’t pay to outsource labor. The problem with outsourcing is that they haven’t outsources the higher pay with the jobs they have moved.
Unions can move the pay to go along with the jobs.
If you have 1,000,00 workers in a city working for $1 an hr and the alternative to that is to go dig in the dirt for food then they will be happy working for $1 an hr. But if you open a shop in that city that pays $7 an hr for the exact same work as the other workers are getting $1 an hr for then employing a very few workers will put pressure for higher wages. If the alternative to working for $1 an hr is $7 an hr then they will stop being happy working for $1. Getting those 1,000,000 workers to organize into unions and to demand higher wages will be easy.
Before we can see higher wages in the US, wages world wide need to equalize.
Wages world wide don't need to equalize, America simply needs to take a more protectionist stance and stop leaving it's economy to the wolves. Low wages are bad for the country.
Wonder Bread if I remember correctly was vulture capitalists looking to make a quick buck breaking up a company and bailing on retirement benefits. They had an anti-union judge in New York who's ability to be unbiased was not there. They've done more damage to America's economy than outsourcing has done.
With the failure of Wonder Bread the futility of Unions asking for higher wages in the US is well illustrated.
The traditional things unions do to get higher wages don’t work so well in the modern era of outsourcing and mass automation. If everyone in the world made as much per hour as we do then it wouldn’t pay to outsource labor. The problem with outsourcing is that they haven’t outsources the higher pay with the jobs they have moved.
Unions can move the pay to go along with the jobs.
If you have 1,000,00 workers in a city working for $1 an hr and the alternative to that is to go dig in the dirt for food then they will be happy working for $1 an hr. But if you open a shop in that city that pays $7 an hr for the exact same work as the other workers are getting $1 an hr for then employing a very few workers will put pressure for higher wages. If the alternative to working for $1 an hr is $7 an hr then they will stop being happy working for $1. Getting those 1,000,000 workers to organize into unions and to demand higher wages will be easy.
Before we can see higher wages in the US, wages world wide need to equalize.
Wages world wide will not equalize. Countries try to bring multinationals in. They will offer attractive policies to outcompete other countries. This is the same as shops offering coupons and customers using coupons.
We have a global workforce. Unions are not possible In a constantly changing and distributed workforce.
Wages world wide don't need to equalize, America simply needs to take a more protectionist stance and stop leaving it's economy to the wolves. Low wages are bad for the country.
Wonder Bread if I remember correctly was vulture capitalists looking to make a quick buck breaking up a company and bailing on retirement benefits. They had an anti-union judge in New York who's ability to be unbiased was not there. They've done more damage to America's economy than outsourcing has done.
Protectionist stance will not work in the high tech global economy.
What is realistic here is using the democratic process to redistribute more toward poor people. It's an easier solution that gets the democrats votes. With this many undocumented immigrants, businesses need not worry about unionization. You can always get more immigrants. The democrats and middle class Americans don't voice a thing.
Protectionist stance will not work in the high tech global economy.
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, and now unlike in its Hostess days, two different Hostess products can ride on one truck.
Perhaps had the union not feather-bedded, the 18,000 fired Hostess employees pre bankruptcy would still have jobs.
We are in an age where brainpower trumps manual labor, especially given automation increasing exponentially, as the need for manual labor will keep declining. That will make its natural labor rate progressively lower.
, and now unlike in its Hostess days, two different Hostess products can ride on one truck.
Perhaps had the union not feather-bedded, the 18,000 fired Hostess employees pre bankruptcy would still have jobs.
We are in an age where brainpower trumps manual labor, especially given automation increasing exponentially, as the need for manual labor will keep declining. That will make its natural labor rate progressively lower.
Technology has raised the average skill level needed to do a job and get a decent pay. When more things are done technologically, they are easier to be located all over the world. One can't imagine what it would be like for our tech firms to have unionized labor. Tech firms move employees around, constantly update their workforce and hire the young and smart. If it's unionized, these firms simply can't function. One unionized firm would not get more firms unionized. It would simply eliminate that unionized firm. Talented individuals would leave the unionized firm for better paying jobs.
Even if all labor is unionized in the U.S., we still face competition from other countries. It's up to them if they want to unionize. But we have to compete with them. Americans can seek a political solution to the problem, but that's not a real solution. Economics is still at work.
In the private sector, the union members only make up 6.7% of the working population, which is so small they have little effect any more.
The newer manufacturing plants, etc., are opening in non union states, often closing facilities in union states.
The first formerly union state, has now become non union, to help hold jobs in the state.
Union workers now are mostly in education, and government employees.
Unions are losing their power more and more.
And those non union states will have a booming economy. Their jobs may be poorly paid, but at least it's better than nothing. Those states will have a larger tax base and better infrastructure all around. The "union" states will deteriorate and depopulate. What's left?
I work at a university. There are over a dozen unions! (Really? Like a university needs outsiders to run the place!?!)
When unions can't bargain for wages (because the 'purse' is empty), they bargain for 'power' - we now send job reclassification decisions to union for 'final' approval. And if the reclass is to a non-union title - it is denied, and the employee needs to file a 'complaint' (yes, against said (THEIR) union!). And unions want a seat on retirement board, etc. Basically, they want to "run the place" with NO RISK (read, financial) involvement. (Not that there is 'risk' in universities, though there are budget concerns in lean times.....)
Point is, the 'role of unions in 21st century' is largely being undermined by unions. Unions only continue to show their true colors = DUES COLLECTION, period.
Evidence you ask? Hum, well, consider that postdocs (those with PhD's!!) are represented by the UAW (yes, autoworkers!). (See "PX" at the link above.)
At some point all those low paying jobs and outsourced jobs will result in citizens who cannot afford to buy or use the products that US companies provide. Which will lead to more layoffs, automation, off-shoring and outsourcing which will compromise the remaining jobs. Don't be too gleeful about the demise of unions. It is a harbinger! After the unions are decimated and folks are limited in their ability to organize, in the quest for profits and growth, companies will go after whoever is left. The easy and first choice in seeking higher profits is reducing labor. And those who manage to retain their jobs will see further cuts in benefits and be supporting their adult children 9and their children) who they happily threw under the bus. Plus, the lack of even medium term job security will continue to suppress home prices. Happy days!
Eventually the only people who will be able to afford US universities will be foreign students. It is already well underway, in fact. U.S. Sees Record Number of International College Students - US News . I guess the universities are showing their "true colors" too: PROFITS FIRST AND FOREMOST, period.
One more thing: The corporation I work for has a relatively small (less than 10%) union component (I am non union). The union guys still have their wage increases, benefits and pensions. Everyone else has seen benefits cut, pensions and wages frozen. New hires get much less than legacy workers. The union is slowly dying off and when they are gone the company will continue to squeeze the remaining workers for everything they can.
Don't kid yourself people, you are next. Whistling past the graveyard! Maybe your specific company is doing well and you feel secure in your job, you still cannot escape the reality that high unemployment and dropping wages will affect nearly everyone eventually. If not directly, indirectly.
Last edited by shaker281; 03-19-2014 at 12:00 AM..
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, and now unlike in its Hostess days, two different Hostess products can ride on one truck.
