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You need to get out more. The so call "stereotypical" job for illegals are not all picking fruit or landscaping.
Lots of factory jobs and many good paying construction jobs. At least back in the early 90's, Now these good skilled trades jobs wages have been stagnate for the last 15-20 yrs. Flooded with illegals.
I get out quite a bit. But where I live, you have to prove you are legal in order to be hired by a reputable employer for a decent job. The immigrants who are taking good paying jobs are here legally.
I find this hard to believe. Where I live, it's impossible to live on 30k unless you have no car, are single, live with roommates, and have 0 discretionary income.
You may be right, but what's the military secret about where you live (the region, at least)? Generally speaking, a higher cost-of-living is reflected in higher wages.
Any time there is talk of income inequality, wage gaps etc. you will have countless posts about Wall Street, Reaganomics, CEOs etc. People will talk about how in the 1980's greed took over in America and we have been in decline ever since.
The irony is that it is because of the massive leaps in technology and standard of living that took place in the 80s, 90s and 2000s that all of these people say "a family of four NEEDS $xx,000 or even $xxx,000 just to SURVIVE."
People have this romanticized image of the 1950s when dad went to the plant for 8 hours a day five days a week and came home to his solidly middle class family. While there was a fleeting period of time that this was possible, the definition of "solidly middle class" has changed since then.
The average home built in the 1950's was 983 square feet. In 2013, the average new home size hit a record of 2598 square feet. Meanwhile the average family size has decreased. (Note: they've decreased in number, not in clothing size.) The "solidly middle class" people that lived in these 983 sq ft homes didn't have designer clothes, luxury SUVs, IPADS, PODS and the like, Hawaiian vacations, private lessons and tutors and the list goes on and on.
Yes, its true. Some people make a whole lot of money and have a whole lot of stuff. Most of those people worked hard, innovated or did something that you and I didn't to get all that stuff. Most of the rest of us that work reasonably hard still live reasonably well by anyone's standards.
Winston Churchill said it best: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
unskilled workers can look all they want but are unlikely to land higher paying employment.
Wow, I guess all those "skill workers" were just born that way. I'm glad you weren't around when I was unskilled. So nice of you to put that iron ceiling above those unskilled.
Any time there is talk of income inequality, wage gaps etc. you will have countless posts about Wall Street, Reaganomics, CEOs etc. People will talk about how in the 1980's greed took over in America and we have been in decline ever since.
The irony is that it is because of the massive leaps in technology and standard of living that took place in the 80s, 90s and 2000s that all of these people say "a family of four NEEDS $xx,000 or even $xxx,000 just to SURVIVE."
People have this romanticized image of the 1950s when dad went to the plant for 8 hours a day five days a week and came home to his solidly middle class family. While there was a fleeting period of time that this was possible, the definition of "solidly middle class" has changed since then.
The average home built in the 1950's was 983 square feet. In 2013, the average new home size hit a record of 2598 square feet. Meanwhile the average family size has decreased. (Note: they've decreased in number, not in clothing size.) The "solidly middle class" people that lived in these 983 sq ft homes didn't have designer clothes, luxury SUVs, IPADS, PODS and the like, Hawaiian vacations, private lessons and tutors and the list goes on and on.
Yes, its true. Some people make a whole lot of money and have a whole lot of stuff. Most of those people worked hard, innovated or did something that you and I didn't to get all that stuff. Most of the rest of us that work reasonably hard still live reasonably well by anyone's standards.
Winston Churchill said it best: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
I live in a modest 1,600+ square foot home. We have 6 kids, 5 of them still at home. We actually had stuff before and no home. Now we have eliminated much of the stuff and own a home that we love, own meaning that we have a mortgage. LOL Still, I love what you wrote here. I remember listening to an interview of a couple that lived a life similar to that in the 1950's. They even wrote a book about living on one income. In my neighborhood about half are retired and another 25% will be there within 10 years. The remainder are working people, both husband and wife work. Sure the homes cost more but the lifestyle is more costly because of the expectations. Every room has to have a flat screen and each of those needs a cable box or similar to get the channels that everyone wants. Need to buy the kids cars mainly because they didn't fix up their own like I did when I was that age. (I am not talking my house as we told our kids if they wanted a car they would need to figure that out on their own.) Todays families want and have everything. BMW, Mercedes, AUDI, and many other upscale brands have become main stream around here. The neighbor girl got a Accura for high school graduation. Lucky girl, foolish hardworking parents. They drive older cars while the little princess gets a nicer car. LOL. I know this family and she is a great kid but I am thinking the car should have not been purchased at all or maybe buy it and give the kid one of the older cars. LOL
Any time there is talk of income inequality, wage gaps etc. you will have countless posts about Wall Street, Reaganomics, CEOs etc. People will talk about how in the 1980's greed took over in America and we have been in decline ever since.
The irony is that it is because of the massive leaps in technology and standard of living that took place in the 80s, 90s and 2000s that all of these people say "a family of four NEEDS $xx,000 or even $xxx,000 just to SURVIVE."
People have this romanticized image of the 1950s when dad went to the plant for 8 hours a day five days a week and came home to his solidly middle class family. While there was a fleeting period of time that this was possible, the definition of "solidly middle class" has changed since then.
The average home built in the 1950's was 983 square feet. In 2013, the average new home size hit a record of 2598 square feet. Meanwhile the average family size has decreased. (Note: they've decreased in number, not in clothing size.) The "solidly middle class" people that lived in these 983 sq ft homes didn't have designer clothes, luxury SUVs, IPADS, PODS and the like, Hawaiian vacations, private lessons and tutors and the list goes on and on.
Yes, its true. Some people make a whole lot of money and have a whole lot of stuff. Most of those people worked hard, innovated or did something that you and I didn't to get all that stuff. Most of the rest of us that work reasonably hard still live reasonably well by anyone's standards.
Winston Churchill said it best: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
Boy are you missing the point. Middle class is about being able to have a family and afford to be able to provide food, shelter, and a little bit extra for them. That's not possible for the average person today. Wages have collapsed. Our standard of living has collapsed, regardless of whether people can afford cheap Chinese junk tvs for a measly couple hundred bucks.
One final point-
When I was a kid in the 80's, every family provided new clothes for kids as they grew up. There was no such thing as second hand clothing except for the hopelessly destitute. Nowadays it's common for families to clothe their children with 2nd hand clothing. This is not progress.
I get out quite a bit. But where I live, you have to prove you are legal in order to be hired by a reputable employer for a decent job. The immigrants who are taking good paying jobs are here legally.
Dude wake up please. They give false ssn numbers all the time. I have worked in the trades for over 25 yrs. I have worked along side many illegals and they tell me their stories. Most construction jobs are subbed out.
You have one Legal guy with 10-15 illegals that work for him. Don't get me wrong, Many of them are my friends still today. But the destruction that our government has let happened is wrong. Too many Americans that I once worked with lost their jobs. These guys were making 45-65k a year back in the 90's. Now those same jobs are occupied by illegals and pay 30-45K. So if you are an american that still works those trades, your pay has dropped these last 15 yrs. These people have to work twice as hard to make half as much. The other side of the coin are the good IT jobs that are disappearing to H1B's. Though technically those are mostly legals. More good middle class jobs "Americans" are losing. Put those blinders back on, it will make you feel better.
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(the region, at least)? Generally speaking, a higher cost-of-living is reflected in higher wages.
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They give false ssn numbers all the time. I have worked in the trades for over 25 yrs. I have worked along side many illegals and they tell me their stories. Most construction jobs are subbed out.
