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Old 10-03-2018, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,433 posts, read 1,170,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
I'm wealthy. Just came back with a load of stuff from Target yesterday. One reason I'm wealthy today is that we lived under our means for many years. And that's a hard habit to give up!
We don't agree on much, but +1 here. Both my ex and I are quite comfortable in part because we raised our family in a modest (although very well tricked up; I'm handy) suburban house while our senior employees lived in maxed-out mortgages. Among other things. Yes, you can save time by spending $200 a week at Safeway, or you can 'waste' another hour or so buying most household goods bulk and discount for $100 less. It adds up, one way or the other, really really fast.

But it's a mindset, and those who think the money is endless can't be convinced with a 2x4 to save it even when it's coming in fast. It surezell won't, not forever.
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Old 10-03-2018, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
6,380 posts, read 3,552,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
I think so many things have improved in the last 40 years and prices have gone down. Cars are better, long gone are the days when you had to buy Consumer Reports to see which car model had the least terrible ratings. TV's are ridiculously inexpensive with less troubles.
One thing we have to remember when we compare the past with today is that crappy stuff doesn't last as long as well-made things, so we're less aware of all the crummy products that were made in the past, while we're very aware of the crappy products made today. The poorly-constructed houses from yesteryear aren't still standing today, the clothing and home goods that make it into museums or other display settings tend to be from wealthier households who could afford better-made things, etc. We're usually comparing the best of the past with the whole quality spectrum of today, which is a loaded comparison.

Cheap clothes from Target or Walmart may not compare with the lovely things you'll find in vintage clothing stores, but how do they compare with homemade clothes sewn from flour sacks? That's a much fairer comparison.
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Durham
1,707 posts, read 2,115,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
I don't think so.
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Old 10-03-2018, 05:05 PM
 
907 posts, read 475,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
With so much things built back during the depression and before, we can see those items are testing the times and still working.
What you are seeing is known as "survivorship bias."

I'll give you two good and somewhat prominent examples. People often like to site old houses as being "well built" or having "good bones", but you are merely seeing the surviving specimens. How many of the houses built in, say, the 1920's are you not seeing because they've fallen down or been torn down? Sure the ones that still exist might be in reasonable shape (you won't get me to buy one), but to say that they were all well built is a fallacy.

Another example is with businesses. People like to say things like "all landlords are rich" or "business owners are rich", but you would only say that about people who've "tested the times" (your words) and survived. It's common knowledge (how accurate it is I do not know) that something like 1 in 7 businesses fail to even get off the ground. So saying that all business ventures are profitable or that their owners must be rich is not reasonable.

I've seen plenty of things passed off as "antiques" that look pretty worse for wear. I'm sure in the year 2137 there will be a few examples of Ikea furniture still in great condition and then people in that year will also say "look at how well built these things are!!!" without considering the tens of millions of other ones that entered the landfill decades before then. Some things never change it seems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

And specifically:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surviv...ods_production
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Old 10-03-2018, 05:47 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
26,971 posts, read 58,392,088 times
Reputation: 29537
Quote:
Originally Posted by InchingWest View Post
...but to say that they were all well built is a fallacy.
Correct. But to say that they were all built comparably to the survivors isn't a fallacy.

Quote:
So saying that all business ventures are profitable or that their owners must be rich is not reasonable.
Are people really saying this?

Quote:
I've seen plenty of things passed off as "antiques" that look pretty worse for wear.
Old stuff is allowed to look beat up.
Quality shows through.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7rlUe-Thvk

Haven't been to a film in years but I think I'll see this one.
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Old 10-04-2018, 09:01 AM
 
4,477 posts, read 5,353,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
A constant source of amusement back in my working days was the comments made to me regarding the quality of production autos. I worked on cars for over twenty five years and then left that business to work in aviation. Throughout my aviation career I was always asked, as a supposed "professional" opinion source, what I thought about the "cheap plastic cars" of today. Those who were enlisting me to tell the stories were always surprised that I was thoroughly in the camp of modern automotive quality and had little positive comments about the supposed supremacy of the fifties and sixties cars.

Some things were undoubtedly better constructed in the fifties, but they were generally built from stronger and heavier materials. Mechanisms were big and often gear driven, made from cast iron and therefore a total loss when the cast parts broke. We all have some anecdotal evidence of the old days being a time when things were better built, but, the truth is closer to the fact that today's material technology is providing better strength while cutting the weight.

I was recently looking at homes being built in my neighborhood, I was somewhat surprised to see that the more expensive homes didn't have a higher level of framing quality, nor did they have any better materials than the less expensive homes, they were just larger and had more bling added. I'm guessing that a lot of our consumer goods are built this way, more bling equals more dollars, but not necessarily better quality. We can better assess relative quality by comparing quality standards from ten years ago to those of today.
Yes, I agree with this for sure, itís very disappointing to me with houses. Itís actually just pathetic but it will require educated consumers with high standards and when it comes to homes, Iíve seem plenty of people with tons of money and no standards for what matters. Sure, they want a granite countertop, but if youíre building a $2M home there is zero excuse why itís not made out of concrete at least and ideally concrete and steel with a lot of high quality office building like glass, not this cheap breakable weak glass windows thrown into cookie cutter row homes. I would never pay the money to build a custom home that had wood anywhere besides the floor above the concrete. Itís poor building materials and youíre exactly right, bigger, more bells and whistles, nicer finishes, but in what really counts - the structural quality - the home isnít much better at all. Maybe itís 2x6 instead of 2x4 but even inexpensive houses should be ICF construction. Especially inexpensive houses because those people would most benefit by having better soundproofing and energy efficiency.
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Old 10-04-2018, 09:56 AM
 
8,330 posts, read 3,515,580 times
Reputation: 1592
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
Yes, I agree with this for sure, itís very disappointing to me with houses. Itís actually just pathetic but it will require educated consumers with high standards and when it comes to homes, Iíve seem plenty of people with tons of money and no standards for what matters. Sure, they want a granite countertop, but if youíre building a $2M home there is zero excuse why itís not made out of concrete at least and ideally concrete and steel with a lot of high quality office building like glass, not this cheap breakable weak glass windows thrown into cookie cutter row homes. I would never pay the money to build a custom home that had wood anywhere besides the floor above the concrete. Itís poor building materials and youíre exactly right, bigger, more bells and whistles, nicer finishes, but in what really counts - the structural quality - the home isnít much better at all. Maybe itís 2x6 instead of 2x4 but even inexpensive houses should be ICF construction. Especially inexpensive houses because those people would most benefit by having better soundproofing and energy efficiency.
We built our house in 1984, previous one in 1980, and both are standing up quite well. Very energy efficient, and sound is little problem. I know of a few concrete and metal homes and see little advantage. I guess it depends on where you live. In AZ wood framed houses do quite well. I have one doc friend with one single piece of interior wood. A railing that leads to the basement. And the home appears very sterile to many people.
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Old 10-08-2018, 02:50 PM
 
8,462 posts, read 7,459,878 times
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In the 50s and 60s myself and my young wife, bought 4 different homes in the Silicon Valley, priced from $13,750 to $20,000 as we stepped up. My father and several other older people told us that we were crazy buying those homes as they would not last as they were built cheap and no quality.

Today they are all till there, and the cheapest one after all these years is reselling for $1,250,000 and up.

The same thing will happen to the homes built today. After over 50 years, people will be saying how well they were built compared to the junk they are building today.

People on these threads, say they will not go to Walmart, Target, etc., because they are only selling stuff made in China, so go to the good quality stores. Go to the major department stores, look around and see Made in China all over the store.

Example. Where do you think the Computer you are reading this on is made? IBM used to be the first and a big builder of Personal Computers. They sold out to Lenova a Chinese Company.
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Old 10-09-2018, 03:05 AM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
4,367 posts, read 2,645,919 times
Reputation: 3824
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmellc View Post
Haha, is there a place in the country now where a rotary phone would even work? My sister even got rid of hers when their phone company went to all digital. She was the last person I knew to still be using a rotary phone. We are nearly the only family I know that even still has a land line. We keep it if we have to give a phone number for any business where we don't want their calls.

I think everything follows the dollar now. I'm 61 and I have a lot of trouble with blue jeans. I can split a new pair just by squatting down. I get Wranglers at Wal-Mart for about $20. I wear them for work where I also might tear them on a nail any time, so I hesitate to spend $50 for better jeans that I still might tear on a nail. But I recall the jeans we had up through my teens. It took several months to break in a new pair. If you washed them and dried them on a clothesline (remember those), they were stiff enough to nearly stand up. I don't know if any are made that way now or if we could afford them.
One person 8 years ago says she keeps her landline around in case she misplaces here cell phone and can't find it A comedian a decade back brought up that he's amused that automated voice systems still cater to rotary phone users... "If you have a rotary phone, please stay on the line" should've been changed to "If you have a rotary phone, please go to Walmart and buy a touch tone phone for $10"




Quote:
Originally Posted by athena53 View Post
Sadly, it's what most of the market wants. I remember back in the 50s when you had a pair of dress shoes, a pair of sneakers and maybe another pair in between. Clothing was kept and handed down to the next same-sex kid. I have a dress winter coat bought at Brooks Brothers in 1983. It's a classic camel style, still looks great and has a Union label in it. It cost $450 but I haven't bought a winter dress coat since.

But go into Target or Wal-Mart and people are stuffing their carts with flimsy stuff made in China that won't be worth wearing next season because it will be falling apart but hey, it's cheap so you can go out and buy new stuff. The old stuff ends up in landfills. Same for shoes and sandals.

In the long run you spend less if you buy quality and aren't a slave to the latest looks. Some years I buy nothing because whatever colors "they" have declared to be in style just look ugly on me.
I thought it was just the stuff of sit-coms, but growing up, boys have dreaded getting hand-me-downs from their older brothers because the jeans would be ripped, or there'd be some weird smell, sticky spots, what have you.
.
Me, I'm both proud and ashamed to say that I'm still wearing the same department store (mall dept. stores like JC Penney, Macys, Lord & Taylor, etc.) clothing from 10 years ago!
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Old Yesterday, 03:03 PM
 
8,462 posts, read 7,459,878 times
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People that say Walmart, only sells cheap goods from other countries, and if you want the good quality stuff made in America, you have to go to better department stores.

How about Macy's, who have Nike the Famous American Brand on Black Friday sale right now.

Go to Macys.com and scroll down to Nike.

https://www.macys.com/

Where is the clothing made---NOT IN THE USA---Fact it is not made in the USA, but in foreign countries including China, with China the advanced country, a lot of them are a long way below China..

Where are Nike products made

And the same for all department stores, a huge percentage of it is made in foreign countries such as China.

So the truth is, Walmart is like all the department stores in the USA, all getting the majority of their goods from foreign countries.

Ralph Lauren is a very well known designer, sold in the major department stores and his clothing is made around the world Not The USA. Including China and a number of very undeveloped countries.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...1204620AA9MMcB

Note one person thinks his goods are made in France, because he is French. Wrong. He is an American born in the Bronx.

It is amazing how many people say that Walmart only sells cheap junk made in China. Walmart tried a made in America campaign, but could not find goods made in the USA, to be able to sell only American goods. They found they have to buy most of their goods and products, the same place that the other department stores buy them, from other countries, and China is one of the most advanced countries they buy from. Even products from famous American companies, who have factories outside the United States.

Adidas--Another top brand and where they are made, not in the USA of course. This is high end department store goods. Europe as an example, buy their goods the same place America does, from foreign less developed countries for most of it.

https://careertrend.com/info-8187202...re-adidas.html

Anyone that blames China for being bad and Walmart only has China junk as so many on these thread do, and they only shop at high end department stores, where they sell high quality goods, not goods made in China, and other low class countries like Walmart sells are just blowing smoke as they say.

And buying from low cost countries, has been going on a lot longer than most people realize. I was a child in the 30s, and a lot of my toys were from Japan and other lower cost countries, even during the great depression. My mother gave a box of my old toys to my children in the 50s, and I remember looking for the place of origin on them that still had that information and it was not the USA.
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