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If they were going to be effective, they would have already demonstrated it. Charter schools have been in operation for well over a decade and their record is spotty.
WITH THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE NONE OF THE CONSTRICTIONS OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOL, AND WITH THE FACT THAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY PRETTY MUCH CHOOSE WHO THEY TAKE, their records should be fabulous.
I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing that in 40 years, you've only known what, one bad teacher? The parents in my kids' elementary school all knew who the "bad" teachers were, and there were a number of them. Now, I learned early on the "best" teacher is not always the best one for a particular child, but there are always some who are not the best for any child.
In my own field, I will tell you that yes, there are bad nurses, bad doctors, bad people in any profession. Anyone who believes otherwise is in serious denial.
Perhaps you choose bad nurses and bad doctors by just lip service. To label someone something you have to have data. What were the parameters in your daughter's school by which you judged them to be bad? If you say they were bad because "everybody knew", that's ridiculous. Please be specific.
Perhaps you choose bad nurses and bad doctors by just lip service. To label someone something you have to have data. What were the parameters in your daughter's school by which you judged them to be bad? If you say they were bad because "everybody knew", that's ridiculous. Please be specific.
As for doctors and nurses, since I am an RN and work with them, it's by observation of their work.
It's been a long time since my kids were in ele school, so my memory is a bit vague. However, there was a teacher who seemed unable to discipline his kids, his classrooms were always chaotic, etc. No matter what I say you are going to disagree that he was a bad teacher, even though he got moved from school to school. That is a common method principals use to get rid of dead-weight teachers, so I've been told by other teachers who are willing to acknowlege that there are a few "problem" teachers. There was a physics teacher at the high school who according to DH, a PhD physicist, didn't have a good grasp of the subject matter of physics. A music teacher was known for his temper outbursts and negative talk to kids; was just fired a year or two ago for whacking a kid on the head with his baton. Another music teacher at the same high school had to go to anger management classes for ripping a clock off the wall b/c his students were clock-watching. This is all just off the top of my head.
There will always be bad teachers. It certainly can't hurt to try to weed out as many of them as possible, but at the end of the day we need greater centralized curriculum planning to reduce the harms resulting from poor teaching.
WITH THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE NONE OF THE CONSTRICTIONS OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOL, AND WITH THE FACT THAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY PRETTY MUCH CHOOSE WHO THEY TAKE, their records should be fabulous.
The fact that it is not fabulous speaks volumes.
Here, charter schools can't choose who they take. As public schools they have to take everyone who applies. If they get more applicants than they can handle, they go to a lottery system.
You also need to think who uses charter schools. Parents don't wake up one day and say "Gee, my kids are doing fantastic in their local school, I think I"ll transfer them to a charter school" Parents put their children in charter schools because they see some need as not being met. Children who transfer to charter schools often bring their problems with them. Charter schools are not the bed of roses you're trying to paint here.
^^The above is the sitation in Colorado, as well. There are a few people who send their kids to charter schools for the "high academics" at some of them, but even then, you hear parents say "The kids at her other school were so catty; I think it will be better at a school that emphasizes academics". (An actual statement from one of my co-workers regarding a middle school, as if the 'high academic' types are exempt from this behavior, LOL.) Lots of kids are sent to these charter schools to "straighten them out" which means there are plenty of kids for them to meet at the charter who are just like them.
Here, charter schools can't choose who they take. As public schools they have to take everyone who applies. If they get more applicants than they can handle, they go to a lottery system.
You also need to think who uses charter schools. Parents don't wake up one day and say "Gee, my kids are doing fantastic in their local school, I think I"ll transfer them to a charter school" Parents put their children in charter schools because they see some need as not being met. Children who transfer to charter schools often bring their problems with them. Charter schools are not the bed of roses you're trying to paint here.
So you say. Except that nobody monitors their lottery policies and in reality they do take whoever they choose based on their charter.
As for doctors and nurses, since I am an RN and work with them, it's by observation of their work.
It's been a long time since my kids were in ele school, so my memory is a bit vague. However, there was a teacher who seemed unable to discipline his kids, his classrooms were always chaotic, etc. No matter what I say you are going to disagree that he was a bad teacher, even though he got moved from school to school. That is a common method principals use to get rid of dead-weight teachers, so I've been told by other teachers who are willing to acknowlege that there are a few "problem" teachers. There was a physics teacher at the high school who according to DH, a PhD physicist, didn't have a good grasp of the subject matter of physics. A music teacher was known for his temper outbursts and negative talk to kids; was just fired a year or two ago for whacking a kid on the head with his baton. Another music teacher at the same high school had to go to anger management classes for ripping a clock off the wall b/c his students were clock-watching. This is all just off the top of my head.
Here again you are talking about the importance of decent administration, not "bad teachers".
But none of these examples are about teaching. There are about personality traits or class management that you don't agree with. They sound like people with personality issues.
To have a "bad" teacher you need to determine whether they are adequately teaaching the subject matter and that they are using appropriate techniques to teach kids.
I had an orthpedic surgeon who had the worst bedside manner you could imagine. But he was a terrific technician with surgery. Some would have called him a bad doctor.
American education is not broken, it does what it was designed to do: (over) produces educated & narrowly specialized grunts for the corporate machine, produces thin layer of ruling "elite", dumbs down, cripple & pacify the rest. Social pyramid got to be stable. You don't increase pyramid stability by educating future burger flippers to the limits of their potential, it means nothing but trouble for the stakeholders.
Original republican push for "educational reform" (no tax republicans worrying about public education, huh?) had dumbing down & union breaking in mind, there is little doubt about that. Students "educated" to ace multiple choice tests tends to have abysmally low critical thinking skills in addition to fragmented&limited worldview, an excellent turf for talk radio and 30 seconds political TV ads.
Here again you are talking about the importance of decent administration, not "bad teachers".
But none of these examples are about teaching. There are about personality traits or class management that you don't agree with. They sound like people with personality issues.
To have a "bad" teacher you need to determine whether they are adequately teaaching the subject matter and that they are using appropriate techniques to teach kids.
I had an orthpedic surgeon who had the worst bedside manner you could imagine. But he was a terrific technician with surgery. Some would have called him a bad doctor.
Oh, come on!
A teacher that can't control a class of 2nd and 3rd graders and has been moved from school to school has a "personality issue"? A teacher that hits a kid on the head with a music baton is not a bad teacher? Gimme a break! BTW, that teacher told the drum major, who was dating my daughter, that my daughter had "a nice rack". Nice professional assessment, eh? He also called a cellist a "d***head". And I did give an example of a teacher who did not know his subject matter, that physics teacher.
Orthos are known to have the personalities of gnats. You are not a child, and you're not with your ortho every day of the week (all day in elementary school) for 9 months, either.
I could give you dozens of examples and you'd still deny it.
"Denial is not just a river in Egypt"
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 05-16-2011 at 05:58 PM..
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Parents put their children in charter schools because they see some need as not being met. Children who transfer to charter schools often bring their problems with them. Charter schools are not the bed of roses you're trying to paint here.
