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So should public money be used for charter schools and cyber schools?
Charter schools are public schools. Cyber schools could be as well.
I think we're headed towards cyber schools because they'd be so much cheaper than brick and mortar schools. I don't think public money should go to private schools, especially those affiliated with a religion, unless there is no other option because of separation of church and state.
Quote:"Do you, SERIOUSLY, think you do not benefit from living in an educated society? Do you REALLY think life would be improved if we didn't fund education?"
Well, I have been heavily exposed to the Far East culture over the last few years... In my engineering lab, 45% of the employees are from India, 45% from Asian countries. Most are not US citizens. Theses are all the top engineers I could find. I go down to MIT frequently, and the percentages there are somewhat close. Having an Asian SO, I have come to learn that a school system can only do just so much. The culture and family expectations have an influence far beyond whatever 'funded' schools yield. I spend part of my time making sure they have valid visas, etc. To make a successful company, you have to have the best.
Quote:"Do you REALLY think life would be improved if we didn't fund education?"
I think the horse is already out of the barn.
Quote:"The point for the comparison on what I spend is that you, obviously, are wealthy and yet you complain about funding education."
I am only complaining for paying for a service that I would choose not to fund. This IS a free country, and we are all entitled to an opinion.
Quote:" You do realize that if you don't fund education, you're more likely to be the victim of a crime...."
Hmm.. go ready my posts on 'Self-sufficiency and Preparedness'
Quote:"As I said, I really don't get the wealthy complaining about what they don't have."
No complaints here... I have everything I want. I do complain, however, when others feel they are entitled to the fruits of my efforts, and they created the situation themselves.
Quote:"All of us will fund multiple students during our lifetimes."
And up to this point, I have been, but that is about to come to a screeching halt.
Quote:"Why you think this makes you, somehow, entitled to break the law is beyond me..."
Living in unincorporated land is breaking the law? Uh oh, then we are going to need a lot more jails.
Quote:"Sorry but being taxed is no more stealing from you than it is stealing from me."
Services we both use is not 'stealing from each other'. When one party uses services that another party does not, will not, nor ever use, and has to pay for, that is stealing. I still want you to subsidize my Aston Martin, but you can never drive it.
Quote:"If you don't like it, you're welcome to leave the country."
Either that (New Zealand looks nice), or, just use the legal way around paying school taxes, which I have.
I didn't say living on unincorporated land was breaking the law. Would you please actually read my posts... The post I was answering had nothing to do with living on unincorporated land. It had to do with allowing others to use your address to attend the local schools. THAT is illegal.
You are not being stolen from any more than the rest of us. You just happen to be richer than the rest of us so your share is bigger.
Seriously, if you don't like it, leave. No one is making you stay.
Off to put you on ignore now...
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 02-06-2012 at 04:16 PM..
If anyone wants to see privatization in action, come to the Mississippi Delta. Public schools here have minimal funding to serve children whose parents don't pay taxes, while those who are paying these minimal taxes can save the money in order to put their children in private schools. De facto segregation is the norm here, with public schools nearly 100% black in most areas. White students, except for the very poor, attend private academies, where there are a few black students on athletic scholarships.
If that is what our country wants, let's go for it and save a bunch of money.
Here is a link to a story that supports the idea of the need for privatization.
A public school teacher posted the following on the internet. The school tried to fire her but it went to court and the Judge ruled she could return to the classroom. (I suppose due to her status as a government employee and protection of free speech rights.) There is a whole thread on this over in Politics if anyone dares to venture over to that contentious forum!
"After today, I'm thinking the beach sounds like a wonderful idea for my 5th graders. I HATE THEIR GUTS! They are all the devils spawn!" Rubino wrote on Facebook on June 23, 2010.
She made the remarks one day after a 12-year-old Harlem girl, Nicole Suriel, drowned on a school trip to a Long Island beach.
When a Facebook friend asked, "oh you would let little Kwame float away!" Rubino posted in reply, "Yes, I wld not throw a life jacket in for a million!!"
Quote:"Psuedo legal to steal from you? You don't use any of the resources? "
When it comes to taxes for education, the amount I use hovers around zip, zero, nil, null, void, goose egg, nada, zilch, nix, and a few others I can't think of right now. But Ivory thinks it is ok to raid my savings to pay for it.
Quote:"For your information you happen to be using both a computer and the internet, which were/are government inventions."
I do, I love it, and gladly would pay for it. I am very happy to pay for things I use. (I used to design backbone equipment that made very high speed internet/phone now pervasive in the US, and one of the customers was the government) You are preaching to the choir. The government started it, but private industry made it blossom.
Quote:"The point is that generations of Americans paid taxes to fund those inventions and never had the chance to use them."
We aren't talking about 'inventions'. Don't know where that came from.
Quote:"As did millions of others, but YOU use them, you benefit and you then use these publicly funded services to complain about you gettin riped off.
I don't complain about them in the least... they directly benefit me, I use them, and I would have gladly paid for them if I had been there.
Getting ripped off? I think this was about the best money ever spent!
Quote:"Furthermore, DAARPA was the government agency which was the catalyst for the creation of the Internet, which first arose back in the 70's."
Tell me about it. I have been doing telecom for years (and BTW, Al Gore did not invent it ) Only 2 A's in DARPA.
Packet-switched networks started in the 60's.
Quote:"You don't want to pay taxes, but you want benefits that come from someone else paying the freight."
Pure speculation, and utterly false. I will gladly pay taxes for those things I use. I am all for a VAT. Any service or facility that you use or any burden on society that you create should come with corresponding remuneration. It is really simple.
Quote:"And furthermore you want public money to fund your private education, just as you wanted legions of taxpayers to pay for your electricity, your computer, your internet."
Geez, such wild assumptions. All I stated was that each student to get a fixed-dollar voucher (the amount dictated from their town/city) to attend the school of their choice. I don't want ANYONE to pay for any of the services I use. That is my responsibility. I also don't want anyone to pay for services that others use, on my nickel.
Reading comprehension time
Quote:"Your argument is far from compelling and I hear it time and again from people who want something for nothing"
You have this entirely backwards. "I don't want to get 'nothing' (something I don't use or care about) for 'something' (my hard-earned money). Even if the technology or whatever the end product is ultimately, it would be only fair to let me choose where my (forcefully taken) money goes.
You really have no idea how to even begin to answer my post. Actually computers/internet are still government projects, our tax dollars through the aegis of the Navy is paying for the new materials that are being used in the next generation of computers for example.
And while you may love computers/internet, your ardor seems to have created a lot of confusion for you. Or is it that your just being obtuse. Again you wouldn't be in the position to post anything if generations of past taxpayers hadn't actually paid taxes for its creation. Which is a point you have no way to rebut.
The rest of your post is a mishmash of the same warmed over "libertarian" boilerplate which has been making the rounds for decades. None of what you posted could have created without the taxpayer, and much of it couldn't have been maintained without the taxpayer continuing to pay for research which is then licensed out to corporations so as to overcharge us for what we created.
By the way, if you had any idea of the amount of public money that goes to universities for research, then you'd realize your zilch, zip, nada, yada yada claim is actually very silly.
Again it's real simple, guys like you want something for nothing.
But the major point is this. The previous generations of Americans paid in far more than they took out, creating the real wealth that you're exploiting. Otherwise there would be no infrastructure, no public wealth. It's laughable to read someone post that corporations created what guys like you take for granted, those same entities whose time lines have been reduced to mere months, and having been gutting much of their own infrastructure to move overseas. Laughable but predictable...
If you want more for your child, you are more than welcome to pay for it. Nothing is stopping you. Pulling money out of the system is unfair to everyone left in. It's not YOUR money. It's the tax payers money. All of the tax payers. Those with kids and those without. THEY are paying for an educated society to live in. Sorry, but public education isn't about YOUR child. If you want more for your child, write a check. When I felt my dd needed more, I wrote a $4000 check to Sylvan. I did not expect the system to cater to her.
The only thing that is 'unfair' is having one's money taken away by force (just try not paying your taxes). IT IS MY MONEY- mine and the rest of the taxpayers. We should all be responsible for educating our children as best we see fit.
The only thing that is 'unfair' is having one's money taken away by force (just try not paying your taxes). IT IS MY MONEY- mine and the rest of the taxpayers. We should all be responsible for educating our children as best we see fit.
It's not being taken by force. It's taken by agreement. The majority rules. If the majority has voted in a millage, and you live in the area, you pay that millage.
I don't like taxes but I recognize that society has dictated we pay them so I pay them. I'm part of society. I get my say when I vote but I have to do what the majority decides whether it was what I wanted or not.
I suppose we could just require every parent to pay for school, and let the prisoners out of prison because no one wants to pay for them, and make every road a toll road, and charge admission for the neighborhood park, and rent books at the library and just let the poor die of whatever ails them instead of supporting hospitals that take the indigent, and buy guns so we can fire the police, and watch our house burn to the ground because there are no firemen.... Never mind.....I think I'll pay my taxes instead.
Yes, individuals lose the right to refuse to pay taxes when they live in a society that has agreed to pay taxes. Society isn't about individuals they're about collections of individuals. If you don't want to support the society you live in, I'd suggest you leave it for one you want to support. The money you're complaining about being taken isn't yours. It belongs to society. You agree to pay it by living in society. You're free to leave any time.
And you are responsible for educating your children as you see fit just as long as it meets the minimum society offers. You have every right to do more for your kids.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 02-06-2012 at 07:10 PM..
I think this is a great idea. Hey, do me a favor. I'm a parent -- I need to understand how telling the teacher what you want with your kids really works for you.
Just to kick things off here, pretend your child is in Ivory's AP Chemistry class. Would you mind -- just to show other parents how the "parents and community tell you what they want with their kids" -- writing down the top three specific skills or concepts that your child should learn in Ivory's class? Be specific, now! Don't just say, "Learn chemistry," but really get down to business. After all, you're the one that pays her.
Top Three Chemistry Skills or Concepts:
1.___________________
2.___________________
3. ___________________
You also set the standard for your kids and not her. Very important concept! Would you mind spelling this out for me, like how this works? Again, if your child were taking Ivory's AP Chem class, how would you assess their mastery of the subject matter?
Looking forward to reading your answers.
I love it when people start getting sarcastic when they hear something they do not like. What you describe is micromanaging. What I am saying is the endstate of education. If parents in the community set the standards as far what they think the curriculum should be, the education agency can present to the community what they think will meet the criteria. Also, many parents out there are educated in many fields like education, psychology, human behavior, child development, etc. so your example is very flawed. Why? Because it seems you allowed youre emotions get the best of you and put to much into what I actually wrote. Instead, a good reader could probably ask me for details on what I wrote. Take care.
I love it when people start getting sarcastic when they hear something they do not like. What you describe is micromanaging. What I am saying is the endstate of education. If parents in the community set the standards as far what they think the curriculum should be, the education agency can present to the community what they think will meet the criteria. Also, many parents out there are educated in many fields like education, psychology, human behavior, child development, etc. so your example is very flawed. Why? Because it seems you allowed youre emotions get the best of you and put to much into what I actually wrote. Instead, a good reader could probably ask me for details on what I wrote. Take care.
LOL, I figured you couldn't answer the question.
The sarcasm was warranted. Seriously, you need to leave this up to the experts. Why do you assume parents know more than teachers because SOME of them are educated when teachers are ALL educated (at least public school teachers are)
And listing the top three skills you think kids should learn in chemistry isn't micromanaging. It's a legitmate question if you think you should be telling me what I should be teaching.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 02-06-2012 at 07:26 PM..
I didn't say living on unincorporated land was breaking the law. Would you please actually read my posts... The post I was answering had nothing to do with living on unincorporated land. It had to do with allowing others to use your address to attend the local schools. THAT is illegal.
You are not being stolen from any more than the rest of us. You just happen to be richer than the rest of us so your share is bigger.
Seriously, if you don't like it, leave. No one is making you stay.
Quote:"It had to do with allowing others to use your address to attend the local schools. THAT is illegal."
Not if that is their LEGAL address, and they LEGALLY live there....
Quote:"You are not being stolen from any more than the rest of us. You just happen to be richer than the rest of us so your share is bigger."
I see, so I worked really hard, and thus I should be penalized. Sounds like time to put all assets in blind trusts, go on welfare and unemployment, get food stamps... just like living the high life
Quote:"Seriously, if you don't like it, leave. No one is making you stay."
I already told you have to legally circumvent the leeching tax, so I have no need to leave.
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"
I don't complain about them in the least... they directly benefit me, I use them, and I would have gladly paid for them if I had been there.
) Only 2 A's in DARPA.
