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Living at home means your parents are providing you with food and shelter, at least. Most students I know who live at home don't even have to do their own laundry. Yet these people then rant on in later years about how they went to college on their own dime. It also generally means you need to have a car, which the parents often buy and help maintain. Why some parents feel that's a valid expense, when paying for college isn't, I can't figure out. I do not know any college student who hasn't lived with roommates. I also know few (none?) who don't work at all.
That's the whole point - private schools and larger state schools are not your most cost effective route. You go to a school you can afford. That may mean a few years at a local junior college, and finishing up somewhere else. The school listed on your degree really is the only one that matters.
It may mean living at home, or sharing housing with 5 other people. Apply for grants and scholarships. Work a part-time job on campus. And, as a last resort - get the smallest student loan you can get away with.
The person I was responding to was talking about how he was able to work through college. There is this assumption that if he did it then anyone can do it. I wanted to quantify his assumption with some real numbers so that he could understand why it may not be possible to do exactly what he did.
Edited to add: I guess I was responding to your post. Sorry.
So if a student is making $7600 over the summer how is that student getting by without help from their parents? Since an apartment costs around $900 per month a student sharing an apartment close to the campus needs $5,400 just to pay for his half of the apartment (let's assume 2 people in a 2 BR). Let's say his taxes are only $1000. That leaves the student $1200 for everything else, including tuition. Since tuition is around $100 per credit the student could take 12 credits during the year, but only if they didn't eat.
I understand that students have other options besides going straight through to a university. I also understand that some parents really cannot help their kids with college. I don't understand why a parent who has the means to help their children would make them struggle.
Last edited by Momma_bear; 11-29-2012 at 03:03 PM..
I knocked myself out raising money for the first semester and relied on loans for the second semester. I am grateful that my parents helped "after the fact," by paying the loans after I graduated. When I started college, they weren't sure they could help me other than my food card. My parents needed the 4 years to get back on track themselves, as they were older parents rapidly approaching retirement after some serious financial setbacks.
I ran current numbers for my old school using the $7,600 value listed for a summer's pay. I could still, although barely, pay for one semester of tuition, books, room, and board. It would still require a part time job for other daily expenses, and I would still have to get a loan for the second semester. It's a tough way to go. But 4 semesters of loans beats having 8 semesters of student loans.
If you can help your kids and they will appreciate it - by all means help. But you do not owe it to them anymore than they are obligated to help you when you are old and grey.
I knocked myself out raising money for the first semester and relied on loans for the second semester. I am grateful that my parents helped "after the fact," by paying the loans after I graduated. When I started college, they weren't sure they could help me other than my food card. My parents needed the 4 years to get back on track themselves, as they were older parents rapidly approaching retirement after some serious financial setbacks.
I ran current numbers for my old school using the $7,600 value listed for a summer's pay. I could still, although barely, pay for one semester of tuition, books, room, and board. It would still require a part time job for other daily expenses, and I would still have to get a loan for the second semester. It's a tough way to go. But 4 semesters of loans beats having 8 semesters of student loans.
If you can help your kids and they will appreciate it - by all means help. But you do not owe it to them anymore than they are obligated to help you when you are old and grey.
I think that parents that can pay something do owe it to their kids. Parents don't need to pay 100% of college to help. I am sure that your parents paying for food helped you and that you were grateful for the help they could give you. In my case, I don't think I could sit here in my big house, with everything I need and more than I could really ever want and let my kids kill themselves to go to school. I do understand parents that can't pay and if they can't then they can't. I don't think parents should live in poverty for their kids to go to college. I just can't imagine solidly middle class and higher parents not helping at all.
We were on a quarter system at my school. I basically divided my summer earnings into 4 parts. And that was my spending/book money for that quarter. I didn't have a car at school, walked everywhere, went straight home during the holidays and worked during the longer breaks. I did party but girls got in free to most of the parties so I didn't spend that much on partying. We ordered pizza once a week. So expenses were pretty low, but I still really had to very careful with my money and by the end of the year there was nothing left.
I honestly don't remember how much my tuition was back in those days. If I had worked part time throughout the school year, I might have been able to swing tuition, too. It might have been doable but it would have been tough to finish debt free (most of the people that I know who did that had to take out student loans, even then). Add on room and board? No.
Even though I was able to pay for most of hte costs, I still ended up with a little debt (about $3800) I was on the debate team for two years and that seriously limited my abiltity to work during the school year. It took up almost all my afternnons, weekends and some nights. Plus I lived at home. I still had to buy and make my own food and cover all costs of my car, but I did not have to pay rent or utilites, plus I got some clothing and books for Christmas and Birthday presents. So even then, it was not entirely possible to make it on my own. Now it is entirely impossible for most.
I do not know how anyone can finagle 60 hours a week for summer jobs. Our kids cannot even get 40 hours a week. When I was in colelge jobs were plentiful and employers were very happy if you wanted more hours. Now it is the opposite.
Here's a situation I'm familiar with, which shows how it's possible to make it after college even with a major that's not a clear cut, straight-and-narrow path to a good job. This story also brings into question the notion that kids whose parents pay for college are sure to blow off studies, party their way through college, and end up with no sense of responsibility. This one involves some of my relatives.
Let's call the father in this case "Bill." Bill shows some similarity to the OP in this thread. Bill lived in a blue collar family in early childhood, and later on the family was poor, after the father abandoned them. Bill completely paid his own way through college, the only way he would have been able to go. Bill became an engineer. His wife is a doctor. They live in one of Boston's wealthiest suburbs. It was assumed from the time their two sons were born that the kids would go to college, straight out of high school, on the parents' dime. The parents assumed this, and conveyed this message to their sons in various ways, such as talking all along about "when [the kids] go to college," as if that were a given.
Of course, growing up in an affluent suburb also caused the kids to get this message from a number of quarters outside the family. Their town's school system is geared entirely toward college prep. All these kids' friends and peers assumed they would not only attend college, but go to really good colleges. If ever there were kids with a background that you'd fear would lead them to take college for granted, and to party away their parents' money, it would be these two.
Despite the fact that everyone including the parents always assumed that the parents would fully fund the boys' educations, given his background, Bill felt it was important for his sons to choose majors that would obviously lead somewhere. He was decidedly not happy when they both showed interests in the general area of the arts.
Here I'll tell about the older boy, because the younger son is still in college, so it remains to be seen how this all plays out with him. The older son finished college two-and-a-half years ago, so there's at least some idea how his life after college is starting to work out. He's doing okay. I'll call him "Luke."
Luke is interested in music. In high school he and some friends formed a rock band. Luke showed some signs of a practical outlook at that time, because he acted from the start as the band's business manager, finding them gigs. He even organized on his own a charity concert featuring local high school and college rock bands, to give his band a chance to play, and be seen, in front of a good crowd.
Luke's big dream has been to become a rock star, but in college he majored not in music theory or the like, but in music technology. He told me in conversations about this that he'd love to end up as a big-time rock musician, but he knew he'd better plan on something practical to fall back on. The music tech major was his way of keeping his hand in music while also setting himself up for the possibility of production work.
Luke's father, Bill, really objected to the fact that even these practical plans didn't seem to him to guarantee that they would lead Luke anywhere. A problem that complicates things here is that--I'm convinced--Bill has a psychological disorder that causes him to be exceedingly controlling. He actually made a push to yank Luke's college funding when the kid was nearing the end of his sophomore year, unless Luke would change majors to something that got Bill's approval. The mother stood her ground in refusing to go along with this, so it did not happen. Still, there was the threat for a time that Luke could lose parental funding after he had in effect been promised he'd be sent to college, with no conditions ever having been attached to this, and after his whole life had prepared him for college and really for nothing else.
Bill's controlling tendencies also led him to micromanage his sons' lives all around. He tried to pick their high school extracurricular activities for them, moping and constantly criticizing when instead they both pursued their own interests. He also generally did not allow them to explore life on their own, instead constantly looking over their shoulders, telling them how to make every little move with projects they were working on and the like. This all made for a seemingly bad combination: rich kids who had the message all their lives that everything--even expensive big-ticket items like college--would be handed to them, who at the same time were never allowed much leeway to learn independence by working through their activities on their own, making mistakes and learning from them. Sounds to me like a sure ticket for failure, for a college kid who would fail to take his studies seriously, and blow all his parents' dough on parties.
So how did this "spoiled rich kid" do? Well, he didn't graduate with a 4.00, but he did fine academically, even making the Dean's List a number of semesters. He seemed to strike a good balance between studying seriously and still finding time for fun. After his junior year, Luke did a summer internship in L.A., working on the set of a Hollywood movie, which of course added a nice little item to his resume in addition to being good experience. He took his music interest very seriously.
Luke got married in the summer right after college. His wife works an entry-level job in medical research. That rock band Luke and his friends started in high school is still together. They play occasional gigs at small clubs in the local area. They never really seem to have caught on big, though, and Luke has pursued the more practical side of his interest in music by working in recording studios, and more recently as a department manager in a music/guitar/sound equipment store. Between him and his wife, they support themselves. In a typical young couple kind of way, living in an apartment, going in for sort of cheap entertainment, but still, making it on their own.
Who knows how this young man who seemed like the perfect candidate to be a spoiled brat who would never have any sense of responsibility has been just the opposite. Maybe it was in his genes. Maybe it was his mother's influence. Or, being that our extended family is close enough for other relatives to be involved in those kids' lives, perhaps various relatives made a contribution to their development. (By the way, though the jury is still out on Luke's younger brother since he's still in college, he shows good indication that he'll make it after college as well, as he applies himself diligently to his studies in another area of the arts, theater, and is working on his own practical career plans as well.)
Whatever it is, this is one example that shows that you just can't state categorically that kids will or won't grow into responsible, independent adults based on their background, or on whether their parents foot the bill for college.
I was a hard working poor kid who discovered everything when dealing with college is based on parents income and tax returns. My selfish mother didnt want to pay anything after her income increased so she refused to sign anything for me and I had to drop out. The Federal government requires the parents income be reported unless student is married, ward of state, in the military or reached the age limit of the aid application for that year. I had been financial independent from my family since I was 16 but the government didnt care. And the majority of scholarships are also based on parents income. Private student loans are hard to get without a parent signature.
No one paid for me to go to college. Sure, I made it on my own. It took me nine years to finish my undergraduate degree. I struggled. I did not even have parents to live with..
I don't see how that really "helps" anyone be more mature or appreciate college any more. I did not live on campus, or go to football games, or enjoy college. I even quit my major of Biology and Chemistry, because I could not find labs to mesh with my work schedule.
I gave up several times, just decided to bag it...when I finally realized that if I did not finish, I was going to be stuck in the same types of jobs I had hated for the last ten years...
You don't have to pay for college...but it would be nice.
I realize this is anecdata, but I had a friend who was supporting himself and working his way through college. He even had a job in his field. That job was so demanding that he frequently missed class--because of work. He had to repeat a couple classes because he failed them. He did look for other jobs but the job market over there is terrible and he couldn't find anything that would allow him to continue the same lifestyle he had, and believe me it was nothing extravagant. He just wanted something that would pay the bills.
I'm just saying, with all the posts in this thread saying "if your parents pay for you to attend school, you'll squander their money away on parties", sometimes having to work your way through school can be so demanding that your school work (and thus money) is impacted anyway!
As in life some can not afford a 6br home with 4 cars in the garage, a boat, cabin at the lake, camper and a summer home.
Just as some can not afford to go to college or a home.
Lets remove this fake right of entitlement.
The facts are not everyone gets to go.
Some go on to become Doctors while others start at the bottom and work their way up.
Some go to school at a older age while some never go.
Why do some of you think minimum wage should cover all of your wants?
If your smart enough to go to college, your smart enough to make well over the minimum wage.
Or are you?
I'm not sure how you can equate getting a higher education with wanting a huge house, a summer home, camper etc. Unless you come from money, or unless you are someone like Bill Gates, you pretty much need some sort of higher education (college, trade school, certificates, something) to land anything that pays more than a fairly meager hourly wage. Many of my coworkers do not have college degrees, and they make good money, but if they had to go back and get a similar job without the degree they would not be able to. This is part of why states like Michigan had such a problem when the auto industry was collapsing. Factories closed and they were unable to get the few similar jobs that existed because they were no longer qualified to do the job they'd held for 20+ years.
As for the minimum wage comment, please show me the jobs that pay well over minimum wage that will hire someone with only a high school education. It's not a matter of intelligence.
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A situation I'm familiar with
