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The American public education is a national embarassment and a disgrace. If you look at where our students rank in the world when taking tests that measure subject matery it aint pretty folks.
This is the direct fault of the tachers' unions, the teachers and the administration. You can try to spin it and pass the blame but it is what it is.
Why do you think that virtually every family with the financial means to send their children to private school does?
We are NOT as bad as you seem to think. Given the disparities of wealth in the US and the disparities in various other measures, we do pretty well compared to other countries.
As to people who can afford it sending their children to private schools, that isn't always because of the academics of the private schools. Note that the US has big achievement gaps between the good areas and the bad ones.
In 2006, the last time the PIRLS reading assessments were administered, a slew of countries and regions equaled or surpassed U.S. fourth graders in reading. Students in Hungary, Italy, Sweden, and the Canadian province of Alberta had higher levels of literacy than U.S. students.
Yet five years later, U.S. students are out-performing students in all of those nations and provinces. Education systems where students were on a par with U.S. fourth graders in reading literacy in 2006--Austria, Bulgaria, Germany, the Netherlands, and the Quebec region of Canada--have all been surpassed in the last five years by U.S. students.
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Finally, the new TIMSS and PIRLS results put to rest, once and for all, the myth that America's schools cannot be among the world's top-performing school systems. In fact, eighth graders in Massachusetts performed below only one country in the world in science, Singapore.
In Florida, the math skills of students are on a par with those of their Finnish peers, who have a record of being among the top-performing students in the world. And the reading skills of Florida's fourth-graders are on a par with those of the top-performing education systems in the world, too, including Finland and Singapore.
But...
when you look at the public schools with no unions, they are almost always providing an inadequate education.
And when you look at the public schools providing an adequate education, almost every time they are union schools.
If unions were the sole cause of inadequate education, the exact opposite would be true.
Public schools with no unions would always offer an adequate education.
At the public schools providing an adequate education would always be non-union.
If you look at my post, I said it was not clear whether there is a link between unions and quality of education. You and the poster above yours are indicating that there is?
If you look at my post, I said it was not clear whether there is a link between unions and quality of education. You and the poster above yours are indicating that there is?
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Originally Posted by NJBest
I agree with this.
I suppose a better question is whether unions are a net positive or negative in terms of providing quality education for children.
Two things are facts:
1. Most public schools have unions.
2. Most public schools provide inadequate education.
Although, you say
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Whether the two are tied is not clear.
The implication is pretty clear.
What if I said
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I suppose a better question is whether white teachers are a net positive or negative in terms of providing quality education for children.
Two things are facts:
1. Most public schools have white teachers.
2. Most public schools provide inadequate education.
Whether the two are tied is not clear.
Why would I bring it up unless to make a point?
or
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I suppose a better question is whether childhood immunizations are a net positive or negative in terms of providing quality education for children.
Two things are facts:
1. Most public schools have requirements for immunization.
2. Most public schools provide inadequate education.
Whether the two are tied is not clear.
Here's the kicker: I am a teacher who chooses to not belong to the teacher's union. I have my reasons, but, in the long list of why education is failing, they are way, way down on the bottom. Prior to being an actual teacher, however, I did believe that they played a big roll in the demise of education.
You know what is much higher on the list? People who make knee-jerk decisions based on their favored media outlet's POV.
Here's the kicker: I am a teacher who chooses to not belong to the teacher's union. I have my reasons, but, in the long list of why education is failing, they are way, way down on the bottom. Prior to being an actual teacher, however, I did believe that they played a big roll in the demise of education.
You know what is much higher on the list? People who make knee-jerk decisions based on their favored media outlet's POV.
I wasn't trying to imply that actually. My state has teachers unions and consistently ranks among the top performing states.
The American public education is a national embarassment and a disgrace. If you look at where our students rank in the world when taking tests that measure subject matery it aint pretty folks.
This is the direct fault of the tachers' unions, the teachers and the administration. You can try to spin it and pass the blame but it is what it is.
Why do you think that virtually every family with the financial means to send their children to private school does?
What and how kids are taught have nothing to do with unions. The unions represent the teachers only. They have no say in the curriculum. You can blame the school board for our poor ranking. A lot of kids should be held back and repeat a grade but that is rarely done. My daughter has many kids in her class that can barely speak English. Some have gone to their home country for months and missed so much learning yet they will be promoted to the next grade. That is not the unions doing.
teachers' unions always oppose merit pay. If merit pay were implented the quality of the teachers would rise. this is just one example of how unions are part of the problem.
teachers' unions always oppose merit pay. If merit pay were implented the quality of the teachers would rise. this is just one example of how unions are part of the problem.
As a society we cannot even agree on student assessment, and now you have a method of measuring one teacher as being better than another? Please explain exactly how one teacher can be better than another, and at what steps would this merit pay be applied? How could this be done to assure only the best teachers would be said to be better than another? Would it be favoritism, reality, a best guess standard, or would it be standards student testing that has already been debunked.
Now you see why union protection from unfairness is required. You claim teacher quality would rise through a system that is unproven, and hasn't shown an increase in pay. I say if you increase the pay you will attract the best.
For gods sake, we pay a prison guard more than the people that educate our children, and you're whining about unions?
Also, if merit pay is a union problem please expound how well it is working in non-union states?
teachers' unions always oppose merit pay. If merit pay were implented the quality of the teachers would rise. this is just one example of how unions are part of the problem.
As much as you want to blame unions they are not the problem. And how exactly would you base merit pay. I think the quality of teachers depends on state requirements. In Maryland you have to apply to the major and it's very selective. It's also a very rigorous program that some drop out of. The public schools are excellent because of their high standards. In other states I think you only need a teaching certificate.
I wasn't trying to imply that actually. My state has teachers unions and consistently ranks among the top performing states.
If I misunderstood, I'm sorry. But why pair the two then?
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Originally Posted by Declan's Dad
teachers' unions always oppose merit pay. If merit pay were implented the quality of the teachers would rise. this is just one example of how unions are part of the problem.
Of all the countries who outrank us, which one's have a merit pay system?
The merit pay systems experiments in our own country have had disastrous results. Under Michelle Rhee's short tenure as the DC Chancellor of Schools, she instituted merit pay. We all know how that turned out.
Merit pay has been tried and has not been effective anywhere that I know of. In fact, it has promoted widespread cheating scandals. Some educators were required to give money back after those who had given it to them had decided that reward system itself was faulty.
the american public education is a national embarassment and a disgrace. If you look at where our students rank in the world when taking tests that measure subject matery it aint pretty folks.
This is the direct fault of the tachers' unions, the teachers and the administration. You can try to spin it and pass the blame but it is what it is.
Why do you think that virtually every family with the financial means to send their children to private school does?
roflmao
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