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Well thats a very miraculous situation, and an exception to the rule. If you look around most schools get little or no funding for the arts and those teachers are forced to fight tooth and nail for even a little bit of funding.
I doubt they are completely cut out of the program. I'm sure that even if they aren't in the marching band they are still in another group in order to develop as a player.
175 kids...... I don't know of any two or three sports teams that have that many members working together, at the same time. Lots of teamwork there, lots to learn too bad most other schools and the country couldn't pick up a little more on that.
Yes, one of the joys of living in MN, excellent schools. There are several concert bands available for those that don't make the marching band, yes, but the marching band is the cream of the crop so to speak. I think you will find that the music programs in MN are a very high priority in most districts. Heck, in our old town the football team could barely field a team because everyone was out for marching band. They had 250 kids in the marching band out of a school of 900 kids.
odinloki1--in our school there are several kids that do both marching band and sports. They have worked out a nice schedule where the marching band is their band class during the school day and then they practice from 6-9 two evenings/week to accommodate the sports schedule. It also allows the to get onto the practice fields and it is a heck of a lot cooler in the evenings. If there is a conflict between marching band/sports they work it out. Some competitions are more important then others so they try to alternate what is missed. Our marching band gets more press then any of our sports teams.
[quote=golfgal;2088449]Yes, one of the joys of living in MN, excellent schools. There are several concert bands available for those that don't make the marching band, yes, but the marching band is the cream of the crop so to speak. I think you will find that the music programs in MN are a very high priority in most districts. Heck, in our old town the football team could barely field a team because everyone was out for marching band. They had 250 kids in the marching band out of a school of 900 kids.
quote]
The marching bands that I am familiar with are that way as well, competitive and strong. There are programs for kids who do not make the marching band, but making it is tough! Great band, though! That is great that they worked out a way for kids to do sports and marching band, I have seen kids have to choose which stinks for them.
I was a band director and have seen hundreds of programs, most are all students participating if they can make the commitment, and most directors I have known (again hundreds) end up taking the back seat to athletic programs. Some are strict and berating, but most are more encouraging than anything.
I have known plenty of kids that play the cymbals and they're all essential. Have you ever watched a halftime show? Ever noticed when a kid is sick or absent? There's a giant hole. No their part may not be the most difficult but they all have a purpose and a job.
Yeah best to let programs be survival of the fittest thats wonderful. Lets tell kids they're probably not gonna be good at a lot of things so they don't even try and waste the time of the truly talented kids. I mean lets face it, the odds are that they aren't gonna amount to much anyways and gonna just have some tiny cookie cutter house and be constantly struggling to pay the bills. Stop coddling them lets just tell them life is tough, too bad you're not gonna amount to anything.
Or, maybe we could encourage them. Maybe we could let kids find some things to do that make them happy before they enter the rat race that is the American workforce. Let them do some things that let them look back and take pride on what they did. For some, that might be the best they get. I've seen some kids with some serious learning disabilities and getting to participate (even if its just playing the cymbals) was important and was a big deal.
Every kid has the ability to be successful and should get that opportunity at least a few times before adulthood. Shouldn't they? I don't like those competitive programs which only discourage kids by keeping them out. All the kids learn from that is how to hate the program, the director or coach, or even the game itself.
I do see what you are saying but I also see the flipside as well, especially in high school. I do think elementary and middle school is a great time for kids to explore everything but in high school is where the kids need to focus on what they are good at. The college admisisons issue is a good one to insert here. Colleges want to see students excel at one or two things, not be a member of 20. They are looking for the band members who have played four years and are the first chair, the football player who has played four years, the yearbook editor that started out at the bottom and worked his way up. I am certainly not in favor of kids being hurt or excluded, I mean I am a counselor, softy is my middle name! However, in my experience I have seen good come from bad. My baseball player turned artist is the best example. He would have never, never found his true calling had he not been cut from the team. I would much rather see a kid participating in something he is good at rather than riding the bench of a sport he is not and is only on the team because everyone made it.
I work with kids all the time who are cut from this or do not make that and what we do together is explore thier real strengths and interests. Sure, there is a grieving period but ultimately, good prevails, it really does.
Trust me, I am not a bad person and I love kids more than anything, I wish they could be happy all the time and never face disappointment. But, a big part of my job, especially at the high school, is making sure these kids are ready for college and the real world. We all know in college, competition is fierce with all kinds of things, sports, academic teams and classes, clubs, etc. So, by taking the time with kids and exploring their interests and skills, we equip them with the skills necessary to go into the real world and head down the right path.
I take my comment about the Cymbols back, that was not fair of me to say. I had a student who played the cymbol and he loved it! The marching band programs that I have seen are very competitive and not all kids make it, sure they can be in concert band, but it is not the same to the kids.
novanative75--in your experience do you find that the kids being cut from a team don't have as big of a problem with it as their parents do? I have had to cut some kids from various teams over the years and generally the kids have been fine with it, almost grateful, but the parents are another story!
novanative75--in your experience do you find that the kids being cut from a team don't have as big of a problem with it as their parents do? I have had to cut some kids from various teams over the years and generally the kids have been fine with it, almost grateful, but the parents are another story!
Absolutely! Remember the story of the Texas mom who shot the cheerleader! It is usually the case, partly because the parents do not want their kids sad, etc. I love it when I get parents who use it as a learning lesson, it really works when approached like that
Kids are for the most part, resilient. They can handle it, they can move on, it is the parents who go all kooky!
I do see what you are saying but I also see the flipside as well, especially in high school. I do think elementary and middle school is a great time for kids to explore everything but in high school is where the kids need to focus on what they are good at. The college admisisons issue is a good one to insert here. Colleges want to see students excel at one or two things, not be a member of 20. They are looking for the band members who have played four years and are the first chair, the football player who has played four years, the yearbook editor that started out at the bottom and worked his way up. I am certainly not in favor of kids being hurt or excluded, I mean I am a counselor, softy is my middle name! However, in my experience I have seen good come from bad. My baseball player turned artist is the best example. He would have never, never found his true calling had he not been cut from the team. I would much rather see a kid participating in something he is good at rather than riding the bench of a sport he is not and is only on the team because everyone made it.
I work with kids all the time who are cut from this or do not make that and what we do together is explore thier real strengths and interests. Sure, there is a grieving period but ultimately, good prevails, it really does.
Trust me, I am not a bad person and I love kids more than anything, I wish they could be happy all the time and never face disappointment. But, a big part of my job, especially at the high school, is making sure these kids are ready for college and the real world. We all know in college, competition is fierce with all kinds of things, sports, academic teams and classes, clubs, etc. So, by taking the time with kids and exploring their interests and skills, we equip them with the skills necessary to go into the real world and head down the right path.
I take my comment about the Cymbols back, that was not fair of me to say. I had a student who played the cymbol and he loved it! The marching band programs that I have seen are very competitive and not all kids make it, sure they can be in concert band, but it is not the same to the kids.
See I disagree. I think high school needs to be more exploratory. Most kids have many different skills that can be improved, to lead to a happy adulthood. I just started some woodworking and found out that I'm good at it and its a good stress relief for when life makes me miserable. I'm 27, I could have learned so much more if that opportunity had been presented to me in high school. The only industrial arts classes were at a tech center half an hour away and I needed to stay at school to get more core classes (physics, chemistry, AP history to be competitive for college, I got cut from soccer and rode the bench in basketball because it was all about the wins and losses and I learned to hate sports for 10 years.
High school needs to be less competitive because people need to have a broader understanding and apppreciation for everyone else's role in the world. I've seen parents keep their kids out of programs because they had a bad experience with it 30 years ago and they believe no good can come of it.
When did education become more about worker training and less about learning? I personally think that making things more competitive (even in the economy and global marketplace) is going to take things in the completely wrong direction and education from the very beginning (preschool) will be about making sure little Johnnny or Susie will have a good job and make lots of money and that is a lousy solution because in reality the odds are pretty good that someone can come along and do your job as good as or better than you can do it. In the economy we're all pretty replaceable I think its better that we offer our kids more ways to be happy as they grow up, not ways of making lots of money.
See I disagree. I think high school needs to be more exploratory. Most kids have many different skills that can be improved, to lead to a happy adulthood. I just started some woodworking and found out that I'm good at it and its a good stress relief for when life makes me miserable. I'm 27, I could have learned so much more if that opportunity had been presented to me in high school. The only industrial arts classes were at a tech center half an hour away and I needed to stay at school to get more core classes (physics, chemistry, AP history to be competitive for college, I got cut from soccer and rode the bench in basketball because it was all about the wins and losses and I learned to hate sports for 10 years.
High school needs to be less competitive because people need to have a broader understanding and apppreciation for everyone else's role in the world. I've seen parents keep their kids out of programs because they had a bad experience with it 30 years ago and they believe no good can come of it.
When did education become more about worker training and less about learning? I personally think that making things more competitive (even in the economy and global marketplace) is going to take things in the completely wrong direction and education from the very beginning (preschool) will be about making sure little Johnnny or Susie will have a good job and make lots of money and that is a lousy solution because in reality the odds are pretty good that someone can come along and do your job as good as or better than you can do it. In the economy we're all pretty replaceable I think its better that we offer our kids more ways to be happy as they grow up, not ways of making lots of money.
Thank you odinloki1, you are so right. So many children never get the chance to participate. I guess I just don't understand some people. I am all about the kids. I am not one of those kooky people. I am a concerned parent for all school children. I am a pretty strong minded individual and a couple of bad comments and name calling is not going to stop me from rooting for ALL children. The sports ARE all about the adults in the schools. That is what brings me to my position in all of this. I have an honor roll student myself. He has been playing sports for near to 10 years now. He has been accepted to the college of his choice, but that did not come through the sports. He is in the book of who's who in achievements. He is a baseball, basketball, football and track star. He has medals,awards and trophy's. He really wanted everyone to be able to play. When he was in the 3rd grade, I made him, play baseball, if nothing else, just for the socialization. Well then I became a hated mother right off the bat. There were little boys sitting crying on the bench. I did not realize that until I started getting dirty looks and no one would socialize with me and would not even say hello. So I plain outright asked them, why they didn't like me. They all said because our kids are sitting on the bench crying while your kid gets to play every inng. Oh my God, I was devistated. I called the coach over and asked to please take my child off the field at least until ALL the kids had equal or close as possible playing time. HE said no, we are winning, if I take him out now, we will lose the game. I was furious. These are little 3rd graders!! So I stormed onto the field and physically removed my child and very loudly expressed to him, that I would not bring my child back to play again if they wouldn't let the rest of them play too. Yes, he is very talented in comparison to the small town and community we live in. He brought state home twice in track and once in football. I am not ignorant to the facts of sports. I have had to continue through all of his years in sports to buck the coaches and insist they make play time for the bench guys by taking my child out for a time. My child has never had a problem with letting everyone play. He does not mind equal time, Win or Lose. I have a very humble child. Well he had to make time to play ball with the ones the school wouldn't. THey are all his friends. My child made friends every field and every track he competed in. So I can appreciate your golden words of wisdom. We need more like you. What really gets me though is that certain people in the world are defending sports over EDUCATION. Whereas, more children studying without favortism and more children off the coach and into the fields could bring good productivity to our society as a whole. But again, it is important in this day and age to EDUCATE. The EDUCATION competition is struggling. THe sports in the schools however are not. I'm sorry to run off the head to you like this but we need good strong minds like yours on every child's side. I will continue to coddle every child I come across. Not like a baby, but as an equal individual in the world. Thank you again.
I would just to thank everyone who comes to my threads and expresses all opinions. The children today are nothing like it used to be. We need to change with them. Yes, I would like to say, too bad, you come to school to learn and that is what we are going to do. If you want to play ball, you will have to do that on your own time. Again thank you for taking time out of your busy schedules to participate here. I do learn from all the derogatory comments too. Again, Thank you for your time. It is greatly appreciated. LIVE LAUGH AND LOVE
In the economy we're all pretty replaceable I think its better that we offer our kids more ways to be happy as they grow up, not ways of making lots of money.
I think you should take a survey amongst all people in the top 10% of wealth, and then a survey of all the people in the bottom 10%. What do you want to bet that the top are far more happy then the bottom.
Turns out, its hard to be happy when you are hungry and your water keeps getting turned off. In capitalism, the only way to pursue self fullfilling endeavors, is to gain enough money to comfortably be able to pursue them without dealing with any of the pitfalls and dispair poverty brings.
Thank you odinloki1, you are so right. So many children never get the chance to participate. I guess I just don't understand some people. I am all about the kids. I am not one of those kooky people. I am a concerned parent for all school children. I am a pretty strong minded individual and a couple of bad comments and name calling is not going to stop me from rooting for ALL children. The sports ARE all about the adults in the schools. That is what brings me to my position in all of this. I have an honor roll student myself. He has been playing sports for near to 10 years now. He has been accepted to the college of his choice, but that did not come through the sports. He is in the book of who's who in achievements. He is a baseball, basketball, football and track star. He has medals,awards and trophy's. He really wanted everyone to be able to play. When he was in the 3rd grade, I made him, play baseball, if nothing else, just for the socialization. Well then I became a hated mother right off the bat. There were little boys sitting crying on the bench. I did not realize that until I started getting dirty looks and no one would socialize with me and would not even say hello. So I plain outright asked them, why they didn't like me. They all said because our kids are sitting on the bench crying while your kid gets to play every inng. Oh my God, I was devistated. I called the coach over and asked to please take my child off the field at least until ALL the kids had equal or close as possible playing time. HE said no, we are winning, if I take him out now, we will lose the game. I was furious. These are little 3rd graders!! So I stormed onto the field and physically removed my child and very loudly expressed to him, that I would not bring my child back to play again if they wouldn't let the rest of them play too. Yes, he is very talented in comparison to the small town and community we live in. He brought state home twice in track and once in football. I am not ignorant to the facts of sports. I have had to continue through all of his years in sports to buck the coaches and insist they make play time for the bench guys by taking my child out for a time. My child has never had a problem with letting everyone play. He does not mind equal time, Win or Lose. I have a very humble child. Well he had to make time to play ball with the ones the school wouldn't. THey are all his friends. My child made friends every field and every track he competed in. So I can appreciate your golden words of wisdom. We need more like you. What really gets me though is that certain people in the world are defending sports over EDUCATION. Whereas, more children studying without favortism and more children off the coach and into the fields could bring good productivity to our society as a whole. But again, it is important in this day and age to EDUCATE. The EDUCATION competition is struggling. THe sports in the schools however are not. I'm sorry to run off the head to you like this but we need good strong minds like yours on every child's side. I will continue to coddle every child I come across. Not like a baby, but as an equal individual in the world. Thank you again.
I would never defend sports over education, that is silly. I do not think anyone is saying that here, what we are doing is pointing out the benefits of competitive sports at the high school level.
You use your example of your child when he was in 3rd grade, OF COURSE 3rd graders should all be able to play, THAT is the time for it, no one is arguing that. I completely agree that the younger children should be on all teams and experiencing all kids of things and, although that does continue at the high school level to some extent (kids are able to choose electives, join clubs that they are interested in, and much more) it is also a time for kids to focus on their strengths and start to realize what their strengths are. However, as far as sports is concerned, these kids are learning, possibly for the first time in their lives, what real life is like. You are not going to get into college unless you are the right candidate, you are not going to get the job if you are not the best candidate, on and on. No one wants a child to face disappointment but I also do not want to see a 22 year old who has never now faced with job hunting and not knowing what it is like to not get everything you want.
In my experience as a guidance counselor, working with hundreds of kids each year, I have seen a lot of good come from sports, from kids playing as well as from kids being cut. I do not support throwing endless money into sports at any school but I also do not support getting rid of that, you would soon be facing a lot of unhappy and unhealthy kids and that leads to poor grades and a lackluster feeling towards academics. The most active kids are the most successful academically, no question.
Also, have you ever considered the amount of money that sports programs bring into the schools? You talk about all this money that is given to them but where do you think the money from ticket sales goes, or from the advertisement in the sports programs. For the most part, a lot of these teams are raising money on their own, car washes for new uniforms, selling candy for money to pay for a trip to regionals.
I admire your passion for children and trust your experience with your child but your experience is limited to your children, your one son that you keep talking about. I have experience with 300-400 kids each year for many years.
Also, I hate to burst your bubble about the 'who's who' program but it is a big scam if no one has told you. They invite the kids, make it seem like they are one in a million, claim it is 'free' and then try to sell you the book, 'a great addition to your family library' and the plaque. Certain people who do not know better buy it and that is why they keep thriving.
Actually, in the county that I work in, we were told to tell students to throw the 'invitations' away because almost everyone who did anything was invited and it was a money maker, period. It is sad because there are a lot of kids who got really excited and thought it was something special but we were not in any position to have these parents throw their money away. I have worked with several college admissions people who chuckle when they see that on kids applications. Of course, the best of the best also get invited as part of the big group, and it sounds like your son is an excellent well-rounded student but I wanted to make sure you knew what a scam it was. I hate to be the bearer of bad news to parents about this but being honest is part of the game.
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