Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-21-2014, 06:16 AM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,909,503 times
Reputation: 12274

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
I don't see the issue IF the kids had been working concepts like that. To toss it out in a random assignment is a different story. Our kids did a lot of abstract thinking work in 1st grade, but they had examples in class so they knew the kinds of things to look for...which may or may not defeat the purpose .
The are not developmentally ready for it. No matter how much you work on a concept with a child, if the child is not developmentally ready to grasp a concept they will not grasp it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-21-2014, 06:20 AM
 
20,793 posts, read 61,308,820 times
Reputation: 10695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
The are not developmentally ready for it. No matter how much you work on a concept with a child, if the child is not developmentally ready to grasp a concept they will not grasp it.
Some kids are, some kids are not...nothing wrong with exposing them to the topic and going from there. If you teach to the lowest common denominator, that is what you get. I remember when my kids were little and my aunt, who had nearly 40 years of primary education teaching under her belt, mostly 1st and 2nd grade, tell me that kids are not ready to read until they are 7 or 8. Well, that was her experience because she taught in an inner city school that was poorer than poor and none of the kids came to kindergarten ready for school. In our kid's class, ALL of the kids were reading, and reading well, by Halloween of 1st grade, most were reading chapter books by then. Yes, they were a bit unusual as well, but they were all mostly youngest kids and were very well prepared for school.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2014, 06:40 AM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,909,503 times
Reputation: 12274
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
Some kids are, some kids are not...nothing wrong with exposing them to the topic and going from there. If you teach to the lowest common denominator, that is what you get. I remember when my kids were little and my aunt, who had nearly 40 years of primary education teaching under her belt, mostly 1st and 2nd grade, tell me that kids are not ready to read until they are 7 or 8. Well, that was her experience because she taught in an inner city school that was poorer than poor and none of the kids came to kindergarten ready for school. In our kid's class, ALL of the kids were reading, and reading well, by Halloween of 1st grade, most were reading chapter books by then. Yes, they were a bit unusual as well, but they were all mostly youngest kids and were very well prepared for school.
Have you taken any child development classes?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2014, 06:56 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,369,227 times
Reputation: 22904
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
Some kids are, some kids are not...nothing wrong with exposing them to the topic and going from there. If you teach to the lowest common denominator, that is what you get. I remember when my kids were little and my aunt, who had nearly 40 years of primary education teaching under her belt, mostly 1st and 2nd grade, tell me that kids are not ready to read until they are 7 or 8. Well, that was her experience because she taught in an inner city school that was poorer than poor and none of the kids came to kindergarten ready for school. In our kid's class, ALL of the kids were reading, and reading well, by Halloween of 1st grade, most were reading chapter books by then. Yes, they were a bit unusual as well, but they were all mostly youngest kids and were very well prepared for school.
And I can counter with an anecdote about a class of first graders from a professional neighborhood where the median income is well into the six figures, all the kids attend preschool & kindergarten, and it is NOT the case.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2014, 07:30 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 7,615,317 times
Reputation: 4469
In reality, this type of math is absolutely spot on for some kids that age, though definitely not for all. One of the things educators have learned is that not everyone solves math in the same exact way. Therefore exposure to the different ways to solve is always appropriate. In many classes this particular type of problem may only be understood by a small amount of 1st graders, however it is important for them to understand that the process they use to find the answer is also correct along with the traditional route. Single digits is completely appropriate for 1st graders.

To show how it is applied similarly for adults....think about how you figure out how old someone is. Say they were born in 1982. While a good deal of people will simply subtract 1982 from 2014, many other people will figure 1982 to 2000 is 18 then add 14 to that for 2000 to 2014 so they are 32. Even now, those who are most comfortable with typical math routes will think to themselves....I never thought of figuring up to 2000 then adding in the next number. Some will realize it may be easier to do it that way because subtracting 1982 from 2014 meant using pencil/paper or a calculator, while the other way may be done in their head quicker. Other people just won't see it as a way to process the problem.

Purely anecdotal......
My oldest daughter had the most difficult time with math all through school. She finally got a professor in college who taught that kids/people solve in different ways and showed them the various ways. The light bulb went off and she actually figured out math because she learned SHE did it differently than had been previously taught. She became a 4th grade teacher where each teacher teaches 1-2 core subjects and when her time to teach math presented itself, she was confident and highly successful at doing so.

My second daughter teaches high school math and has found it extremely helpful to understand the different ways to come to the correct answer as she can help the students who are struggling with one path find another that is more successful for them.

My son.....he is one who would look at the problem in the OP and know instantly which is the correct answer and why. He is the reason his kindergarten teacher discovered that kids can do math in different ways and still get the correct answer, and she had been a teacher of K for 20 years.

edited to add.....I am an early childhood educator and have all the necessary child development classes to back up the statement that yes, it is developmentally appropriate for SOME 1st graders to be able to solve the problem. Just as it is developmentally appropriate for SOME 1st grade kids to be able to read chapter books.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2014, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,391 posts, read 30,931,772 times
Reputation: 16643
I understand what they're trying to do, but this is a terrible approach. It's not a good way to set up a math problem and does not give a good foundation at all for future math courses.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2014, 08:38 AM
 
26,660 posts, read 13,746,362 times
Reputation: 19118
I have a second grader and some of the math she brings home is not developmentally appropriate and the effect it has on her is very negative because she feels like it's too hard and then says that she hates math. And it is too hard because it's not developmentally appropriate. I think that elementary school should be about building a strong foundation and instilling a love if learning. Problems like this are not helping to further that goal for anyone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2014, 08:40 AM
 
13,254 posts, read 33,526,609 times
Reputation: 8103
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypocore View Post
In reality, this type of math is absolutely spot on for some kids that age, though definitely not for all. One of the things educators have learned is that not everyone solves math in the same exact way. Therefore exposure to the different ways to solve is always appropriate. In many classes this particular type of problem may only be understood by a small amount of 1st graders, however it is important for them to understand that the process they use to find the answer is also correct along with the traditional route. Single digits is completely appropriate for 1st graders.

To show how it is applied similarly for adults....think about how you figure out how old someone is. Say they were born in 1982. While a good deal of people will simply subtract 1982 from 2014, many other people will figure 1982 to 2000 is 18 then add 14 to that for 2000 to 2014 so they are 32. Even now, those who are most comfortable with typical math routes will think to themselves....I never thought of figuring up to 2000 then adding in the next number. Some will realize it may be easier to do it that way because subtracting 1982 from 2014 meant using pencil/paper or a calculator, while the other way may be done in their head quicker. Other people just won't see it as a way to process the problem.

Purely anecdotal......
My oldest daughter had the most difficult time with math all through school. She finally got a professor in college who taught that kids/people solve in different ways and showed them the various ways. The light bulb went off and she actually figured out math because she learned SHE did it differently than had been previously taught. She became a 4th grade teacher where each teacher teaches 1-2 core subjects and when her time to teach math presented itself, she was confident and highly successful at doing so.

My second daughter teaches high school math and has found it extremely helpful to understand the different ways to come to the correct answer as she can help the students who are struggling with one path find another that is more successful for them.

My son.....he is one who would look at the problem in the OP and know instantly which is the correct answer and why. He is the reason his kindergarten teacher discovered that kids can do math in different ways and still get the correct answer, and she had been a teacher of K for 20 years.

edited to add.....I am an early childhood educator and have all the necessary child development classes to back up the statement that yes, it is developmentally appropriate for SOME 1st graders to be able to solve the problem. Just as it is developmentally appropriate for SOME 1st grade kids to be able to read chapter books.
Looking at the math problem above, I automatically thought, Hmm my daughter was born in 1985, so it's her age plus 3!

I was one of those unfortunate people that had a slew of math teachers that were not good at explaining math to me in a way that made sense. My aha moment for percents was when I worked as a waitress and realized how much I could expect if the customers gave me 10%, 15% and 20% of their bill for a tip. I can still figure that out faster than my engineer husband when we go out to dinner.

As far as common core, it just seems like over the top testing. I have a friend who teaches kindergarten and she said that there is no more time for unstructured teaching and the standardized tests are not helpful. She said as much as she tries to make them unstressful, they ARE stressful.
__________________
Please follow THESE rules.

Any Questions on how to use this site? See this.

Realtors, See This.

Moderator - Lehigh Valley, NEPA, Harrisburg, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Education and Colleges and Universities.

When I post in bold red, that is Moderator action and per the TOS can be discussed only via Direct Message.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2014, 08:50 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,369,227 times
Reputation: 22904
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
Looking at the math problem above, I automatically thought, Hmm my daughter was born in 1985, so it's her age plus 3!

I was one of those unfortunate people that had a slew of math teachers that were not good at explaining math to me in a way that made sense. My aha moment for percents was when I worked as a waitress and realized how much I could expect if the customers gave me 10%, 15% and 20% of their bill for a tip. I can still figure that out faster than my engineer husband when we go out to dinner.

As far as common core, it just seems like over the top testing. I have a friend who teaches kindergarten and she said that there is no more time for unstructured teaching and the standardized tests are not helpful. She said as much as she tries to make them unstressful, they ARE stressful.
I spent my college years working as a cashier without benefit of an automatic change machine. I think in terms of change for a dollar. 82+x=100...x=18...18+14=32
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2014, 08:50 AM
 
26,660 posts, read 13,746,362 times
Reputation: 19118
I know a lot of good teachers who are leaving the profession because of Common Core. It's sad. I love my child's teachers but feel for them knowing what they are up against.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:12 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top