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The supposed benefits school systems do not outweigh the costs to individual students.
It costs students money to not skip a grade too. If you take a year longer to get through school, you have a lost a year of lifetime income. They might not send you a bill for $50k but you get the point.
What I most don't get is the people arguing for avoiding grade skipping due to social life or to sports. If your child's basketball or afternoon peer group sent you a bill for $50k, would you think nothing? Because if this is your argument, this is basically what you are saying, is it not?
It costs students money to not skip a grade too. If you take a year longer to get through school, you have a lost a year of lifetime income. They might not send you a bill for $50k but you get the point.
What I most don't get is the people arguing for avoiding grade skipping due to social life or to sports. If your child's basketball or afternoon peer group sent you a bill for $50k, would you think nothing? Because if this is your argument, this is basically what you are saying, is it not?
If you haven't been in the situation it is hard to explain. I'm not going to get into specifics, but the gap between the 15 year-old freshman I was and the 22 year-old senior who was in my chemistry class and the first person who asked me out in college, was a very serious problem. Those are seven huge years both developmentally and physically, not to mention legally. Do you think I told him my age? That was just one example, albeit a big one, of the problems associated with my age. The list is unbelievably long, and although everything has worked out, some could have had tragic consequences and probably would have had I not met my now husband. Money, including the grand sum of $50k, does not make up for the emotional damage of trying to be an adult before your time.
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It costs students money to not skip a grade too. If you take a year longer to get through school, you have a lost a year of lifetime income. They might not send you a bill for $50k but you get the point.
What I most don't get is the people arguing for avoiding grade skipping due to social life or to sports. If your child's basketball or afternoon peer group sent you a bill for $50k, would you think nothing? Because if this is your argument, this is basically what you are saying, is it not?
I skipped grades (more or less 1.5 grades) early on. That, combined with an autumn birthday, meant I was 16 for one month when I started college and graduated before I could legally drink.
I was absolutely affected by being emotionally immature (physically, I was on par with my class peers). Would one year have made a difference? Well it's hard to tell. In grade school the differences weren't noticed. But the effects weren't linear. They got increasingly more noticeable in middle school and then into HS and college.
On the flip side, I'm grateful at least that I didn't "peak" in high school or even college. I find that kinda sad when folks in their 30s and up pine away for the glory days. I'm deep into my 40s and feel the best days continue on!
If you haven't been in the situation it is hard to explain. I'm not going to get into specifics, but the gap between the 15 year-old freshman I was and the 22 year-old senior who was in my chemistry class and the first person who asked me out in college, was a very serious problem. Those are seven huge years both developmentally and physically, not to mention legally. Do you think I told him my age? That was just one example, albeit a big one, of the problems associated with my age. The list is unbelievably long, and although everything has worked out, some could have had tragic consequences and probably would have had I not met my now husband. Money, including the grand sum of $50k, does not make up for the emotional damage of trying to be an adult before your time.
I was making megabucks starting at 27 yrs old. No lucky strike, just 3 yrs ahead in school + college and stuck to my plan. Met the (rich and hunky) love of my life at 18. Thank goodness I had no time (or interest) in HS boys.
And that "math" you don't get? Wanna see my 17th birthday cards with "bon voyage" written in them? Fine. Take me to court. And have your lawyer subpoena those documents. You pay court costs.
It's not just sports where physical maturity matters. It matters in theater and music as well. Surely there must be some people who care about things other than academics. My son is at a very academically rigorous private school and most of the kids are involved in something outside of school (not just sports). For some activities physical maturity doesn't matter but for some it does. The thing is that when you make a decision to skip a 5-7 year old child you don't really know what that child's interests will be in high school.
We weren't really worried about the kids engaging in risky behavior. We were more worried about them feeling like a fish out of water socially. I am sure there are some kids who are just fine with a skip. The thing is that parents need to make a decision to skip the child long before some of these issues are known.
I didn't mean to imply that sports is not that important where I live. Just in comparison to some areas where the whole town comes to support the high school football team for Friday night games is nonexistent and in my extremely densely populated area, subsections have zero sports programs in schools. I'm a classically trained musician and I am well aware of the skills needed for music and theater, as well as theater and music education. You are correct that some instruments cannot be played by very young children because of physical limitations. However, some children are just genuinely gifted in music and age cannot be used as part of measuring artistic ability. With all of the musicals in my backyard that center on young talent, such as Matilda,Les Miz, Aladin, Lion King, etc., I'm not sure what you mean by the need for children to reach a certain age to be a participant in theater. There are roles in plays, musicals, and films for humans of all ages. In pop music, there are/were hugely teenage successful talented singers/songwriters/instrumentalists who fronted their band. In music, it's about ability, not age.
I was making megabucks starting at 27 yrs old. No lucky strike, just 3 yrs ahead in school + college and stuck to my plan. Met the (rich and hunky) love of my life at 18. Thank goodness I had no time (or interest) in HS boys.
And that "math" you don't get? Wanna see my 17th birthday cards with "bon voyage" written in them? Fine. Take me to court. And have your lawyer subpoena those documents. You pay court costs.
I don't get it. Why is "Asia" after you?
So if you hadn't skipped 2 grades, you'd have been nearly 19 when you graduated. You ended up 1 year ahead, not 2.
If my kids wants to be ahead, I'll be happy to enroll them in supplemental courses at the local Cal State. At any level, I'll be happy to help the kid study advanced material in any subject I know reasonably well, and I'll hire teachers for stuff like foreign languages and music. No problem at all!
I keep hearing that skipping grades can hurt, and the opposite, holding a kid out for a year if she has a summer birthday, can help (or at least is never something a parent regrets).
Kids are very adaptable, and multi-grade schooling was once the norm and they did fine. I don't see why people are getting so upset about this supposed "emotional immaturity" that they think it is a bigger problem than the epidemic of delayed childbearing and fertility problems we have in the Western world today. I don't think it is really all that hyperbolic to blame our increasing usage of fertility medications and low birth rates in the Western world at least in part on "school simply taking too many g*d-d*** years", to put it simply, though not PC.
For starters, only around 11% of Americans have graduate degrees. I doubt 11% of the population is driving an "epidemic" if that epidemic exists at all. Secondly, mixed grades is much different than a class where 20 kids are one age and 1 is a different age. In a mixed grade setting nobody is the only young one in the class. There is a range. Teachers who deal with mixed ages are usually aware of the developmental differences. Additionally, a range of ages means a range of sizes. It is very difficult to be the only anything in a room (gender, age, ethnic background, race.....).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1
Also, I don't get this obsession with the idea that 16-17 year olds are unable to handle any responsibility and then suddenly at 18 they can. One doesn't get any "life experience" by being forced to wait it out due to a lack of experience. It's kind of like raising the driving age to 18 due to 16 and 17 year olds crashing more due to inexperience. Problem is, you are merely postponing the 2 years of inexperienced driving, not eliminating them! The crashes will still happen, only two years later.
Usually you bring kids along gradually. You don't keep them in a bubble and then let them loose at a certain age. When my kids get their learners permits at 15 they have to drive with an adult in the car. Then at 16 they get their license. We allow them to go out alone but still restrict them regarding where they can drive, when they can drive and how late they can stay out. At 17 the restrictions get looser. At 18 the restrictions are gone. It's not an all or nothing sort of thing.
I don't see the issue as one of responsibility. I think it has more to do with the way people develop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1
Same with college life. It does not matter how long you make someone wait, a certain fraction of the population will experiment with "wild" things as soon as they are away from parental supervision, regardless of whether that happens at 17 or at 18 or at 42.
You'd be surprised just how much of the supposed immaturity of 16 and 17 year olds is actually an illusion. Psychologist Robert Epstein has investigated the issue in quite a lot of detail and his work strongly suggests (but does not prove) that we are underestimating our youth's capabilities to make adult decisions, and that it is not age that determines responsibility, but rather the opportunities one has been given.
Until we solve the problem of excessive time consumption of the education system, I think it is doing a child a great disservice to not allow skipping a grade due to this fear of "emotional immaturity". JMO
My issues with my own child being skipped ahead don't have anything to do with him being wild. He's not a wild person. He will probably drink a bit as his brothers do/did. That doesn't scare me so much. The thing that bothers me is that if he were to go away to college now (at 16) he would not have much of a social life. He is a pretty social person so I think that would make him unhappy. It's tough to do well in school when you are unhappy.
I didn't mean to imply that sports is not that important where I live. Just in comparison to some areas where the whole town comes to support the high school football team for Friday night games is nonexistent and in my extremely densely populated area, subsections have zero sports programs in schools. I'm a classically trained musician and I am well aware of the skills needed for music and theater, as well as theater and music education. You are correct that some instruments cannot be played by very young children because of physical limitations. However, some children are just genuinely gifted in music and age cannot be used as part of measuring artistic ability. With all of the musicals in my backyard that center on young talent, such as Matilda,Les Miz, Aladin, Lion King, etc., I'm not sure what you mean by the need for children to reach a certain age to be a participant in theater. There are roles in plays, musicals, and films for humans of all ages. In pop music, there are/were hugely teenage successful talented singers/songwriters/instrumentalists who fronted their band. In music, it's about ability, not age.
I meant specifically in the high school for high school aged students when I refer to theater. You are correct that in theater there are roles for people of all ages. However, high schools cast only their own students in their own productions.
When it comes to singing a child can have all the ability in the world but if a role requires a mature voice an unchanged (or still changing) voice cannot be cast. Additionally, there are shows where a physically undeveloped characters will not work because of how they will look on stage. Imagine Maria being adult sized and Tony being tiny. In community theater young adults would be cast so it wouldn't be an issue but in high school the leads will be students. A student who needs 2 years to be at the same stage of development as everyone else can lose opportunities.
I think there are some kids who might benefit from being skipped but I think most kids will not benefit from it. Of course, the hard part of being a parent is choosing the right thing for your child. If your child is one who would benefit it doesn't matter if there are a thousand who won't. You have to do what is right for your child.
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