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You'll learn very quickly that you're not allowed to say your child is smarter than average. It's OK to say a child is better at sports than others, better at cooking, etc, but not smarter. It's very politically incorrect and doesn't go over well.
I talked to my mom, and she said my niece is still not being challenged in middle school (when it's supposed to get better due to leveled classes). She looks at school as purely social now because there is absolutely not challenge. When I went to school (on the days I actually went), I saw it as just passing the classes since I wasn't going to learn anything. I hope you can figure out a way for that to not happen to your son.
(I know a number of people who either have had the same thing happen or had kids going through it. These are not isolated incidents.)
Hi EvilCookie,
I hear your frustration and, as the parent of a (now grown) son who was very similar to yours at your son's age, I totally understand where you are coming from. I remember having many of the same worries and fears as you're expressing when my son was in kindergarten.
Over the next sixteen years, your son will have great teachers, OK teachers, a few duds, and probably one or two truly horrible teachers. At times, you'll feel stressed and uncertain about this -- that is normal and something most thoughtful parents go through, even if their kids aren't gifted.
But, it's also highly likely that after this year, kindergarten isn't going to matter much in the greater scheme of your son's life. If your son is as curious, self-directed, and fascinated by learning at age five as it sounds like he is, then he will end up being that way in third grade, middle school, high school, college, and at 25, 35, and 45 ---- even if he's bored to tears with kindergarten.
Trust me on this: a few years from now, you won't even remember the kindergarten teacher's name. She simply isn't going to be all that important in how things turn out for your son in the long run.
You should, of course, continue to advocate for the best educational experience possible for your son, even if that means tough choices at times without knowing what the outcome will be. At the same time, do encourage your son to advocate (politely of course!) for himself too if he feels he needs to know more than the teacher is offering (my son drove his kindergarten teacher mad with his constant questions).
But, try not to stress too much about his kindergarten experience too much if you can possibly do so.
Your son sounds terrific, and as long as he is relatively happy, healthy, and safe at the end of each day, things will work out in the long run even if Kindergarten is a bomb.
Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't care about, or advocate for your son. All kids need that, and your son is lucky to have such an involved parent! However, when I look back on things now, I really wish I hadn't wasted SO much time while my kids were growing up worrying about stuff that didn't really matter in the long run. Now that they're both adults, I wish I could go back and worry less and enjoy my kids more!
In short, pick your battles, fight them well, but let the small stuff stay small (and kindergarten really is a minor part of your son's education).
Best wishes to you and your son (please give him a little extra hug for me tonight --- I miss those days!)
Thank you for a helpful non-snarky response
I agree with everything you said. And honestly, I am NOT stressed about this in any way, shape or form. This thread was just a way to get advice and gather info, both now and going forward. I am a planner and a researcher, I read about and research and think about tons of stuff that may not be necessary for me at any given moment but that could potentially be useful at some point
What I think really happened for me is simply a clash of expectations and reality - and I guess my expectations were unrealistic to begin with. I wasn't expecting miracles, but I expected a similar attitude from the teacher as we had in preschool - recognizing the ways in which he was ahead and enthusiasm and willingness to accommodate a child ahead of the program to the best of their ability. I wasn't conscious of all the limitations of the public school system that work against such an approach - especially in a highly-rated school with an involved parent demographic. Hence I was disappointed at the seemingly indifferent attitude the teacher seemed to have. However it may very well be different once we talk at the conference.
Hence I was disappointed at the seemingly indifferent attitude the teacher seemed to have. However it may very well be different once we talk at the conference.
One small piece of advice: be careful about how you phrase things when you talk with teachers. None of us likes to feel like our professional skills or competence are being called into question. Because teachers experience that situation a lot with anxious parents, they are understandably sensitive to any perceived suggestion that they may not have kids' best interests at heart (and, in my experience, the vast majority of teachers really DO have their students' best interests at heart).
I always found I got the best results if I approached teachers with a "how can we work together ?" approach instead of a "I don't think you're doing your job and here's why" approach.
So, when you meet with the teacher at the parent teacher conference, first listen with an open-mind to what she has to say about your son before you address the other stuff -- learn from what she has observed about your son if you can, as that is useful information, even if you disagree with it.
Then, emphasize the positives you see in your son's experience in her classroom before you get to your concerns and requests.
Sometimes, asking open-ended questions to gently nudge the teacher around to your point of view is better than a more direct approach. For instance: "I'm glad to hear you think my son is above grade level in math. That's great! What strategies have you found work well to keep kids who are above grade level in math stay fully engaged in their grade-level classroom?" (See what I did there?)
Granted, sometimes it was very hard for me to take this approach but eventually, with a little practice, I learned how to play the game so that my kids got what they needed.
You'll learn very quickly that you're not allowed to say your child is smarter than average. It's OK to say a child is better at sports than others, better at cooking, etc, but not smarter. It's very politically incorrect and doesn't go over well.
I talked to my mom, and she said my niece is still not being challenged in middle school (when it's supposed to get better due to leveled classes). She looks at school as purely social now because there is absolutely not challenge. When I went to school (on the days I actually went), I saw it as just passing the classes since I wasn't going to learn anything. I hope you can figure out a way for that to not happen to your son.
(I know a number of people who either have had the same thing happen or had kids going through it. These are not isolated incidents.)
I remembered this post today as I was dropping him off. We stood chatting with a couple of the other moms for a bit and they were talking excitedly about all the cool things their kids were learning and the great progress they were making with letter sounds and counting. I was just standing there smiling and nodding along, and luckily managed to escape having to say anything about my son on the topic aside from generic agreement that he's enjoying school. Because these are moms I'm just getting to know and trying to make a good impression on, so while I wouldn't have wanted to lie if asked outright, there was no way I could've felt comfortable revealing where he's at in relation to the curriculum without it coming off as bragging.
In a way it was like being in school and hiding good grades from classmates all over again, or never raising my hand when I knew the right answer to a question. It's sort of sad and I just really hope my son doesn't ever feel like that, like he needs to underperform out of social pressure or hide the fact that he's smart. While also not being showy about it. I don't know. I feel like those are real issues, and not easy ones to navigate and find a balance
This is also part of the reason I'm so much in favor of tracking and gifted programs. Many people here mentioned just relaxing ad letting him be at the top of the class (later on, not talking K), that there's nothing wrong with that. But I think while it sounds good on paper, at an age wrought with social pressure and fitting in this is the last thing most kids would want or need, to draw attention to themselves in that way. Sadly, while being something like the top athlete in school is celebrated by peers, being the best at math often isn't, and in fact can carry a stigma (unless you're both the best athlete and math whiz, then you can get away with it). So quite honestly, I'd much much rather have my kid be average in a group of really bright kids, than the top in a group of average kids.
I'll make the caveat that this is all based on experiences from my time at school and what I saw around me, not just my own schools. However maybe things and the school environment really changed since then, and being smart and good at math is now as celebrated as much as being star athlete...I really don't know for sure, not really knowing any families with middle or high school kids at the moment. So that is a possibility. In my school years, at least until senior year when colleges and grades mattered more, it wasn't 'cool' to get good grades or study. It was 'cool' to goof off, make smart-ass remarks to the teacher, be class clown, or do your nails with sparkly polish in class. In short it was teen movie cliche exemplified. And no it wasn't a particularly bad school, though not the best. Maybe things changed since then?
Last edited by EvilCookie; 09-30-2015 at 11:00 AM..
I remembered this post today as I was dropping him off. We stood chatting with a couple of the other moms for a bit and they were talking excitedly about all the cool things their kids were learning and the great progress they were making with letter sounds and counting. I was just standing there smiling and nodding along, and luckily managed to escape having to say anything about my son on the topic aside from generic agreement that he's enjoying school. Because these are moms I'm just getting to know and trying to make a good impression on, so while I wouldn't have wanted to lie if asked outright, there was no way I could've felt comfortable revealing where he's at in relation to the curriculum without it coming off as bragging.
In a way it was like being in school and hiding good grades from classmates all over again, or never raising my hand when I knew the right answer to a question.
I think you need to sort out your own baggage on this topic rather than projecting it onto your son's school experience.
If a mom was talking about how proud she was of her kid's beginner violin recital, would you jump in with how your kid was playing Paganini’s Caprice #4 in C Minor? If a mom was excited about her kid making a basket in the latest JV game, would you jump in and say your kid had made five baskets? It's not "hiding" to stop yourself from engaging in one-upmanship, or giving the appearance of one-upmanship. You don't have to go all Kanye-I'ma-let-you-finish on them. It's natural to want to talk about how great your kid is, and it's oftentimes a fine thing to do, but not in the context of "that's great that YOUR kid is learning phonics, but mine can discourse on the collected works of Proust."
There is a difference between naturally shining (e.g. answering that question in class, making that basket, performing in that recital) and bragging. And generally, if someone truly excels they don't need to brag about their performance. You don't have to tell everyone you're the best if you're actually the best.
I think you need to sort out your own baggage on this topic rather than projecting it onto your son's school experience.
If a mom was talking about how proud she was of her kid's beginner violin recital, would you jump in with how your kid was playing Paganini’s Caprice #4 in C Minor? If a mom was excited about her kid making a basket in the latest JV game, would you jump in and say your kid had made five baskets? It's not "hiding" to stop yourself from engaging in one-upmanship, or giving the appearance of one-upmanship. You don't have to go all Kanye-I'ma-let-you-finish on them. It's natural to want to talk about how great your kid is, and it's oftentimes a fine thing to do, but not in the context of "that's great that YOUR kid is learning phonics, but mine can discourse on the collected works of Proust."
Exactly, and hence I didn't. But I feel that even if someone had asked me outright (which is not very likely, I know), something along the lines of "how's your son doing with the phonics? My daughter is having trouble with xyz", I wouldn't know how to answer without it sounding bad. Attempting to casually say 'well actually he's been reading for a while already' would still, I feel, come off somewhat alienating. I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking this..
So you don't think that in the scenario I described, saying this would make me sound bad - one-uppy or 'special-snowflake-mom'? I don't have a problem talking about my child's skills with friends or people I know well, but I feel with a parent I recently met it wouldn't go over well. Therefore I just tried to steer clear of saying anything.
So you don't think that in the scenario I described, saying this would make me sound bad - one-uppy or 'special-snowflake-mom'? I don't have a problem talking about my child's skills with friends or people I know well, but I feel with a parent I recently met it wouldn't go over well. Therefore I just tried to steer clear of saying anything.
The way you handle those situations is you say something vague and then very quickly turn the discussion back to their child. Whatever you do, don't say that the curriculum is too easy in general, especially if their child is having trouble with it.
Another thing you could do - imagine you had another child who was behind in the class. What would hurt your feelings and make you worry all day, and what would be okay? Try to run your comments through that filter first.
My first child is gifted and my second child is delayed (due to epilepsy), and I tell you it is depressing to hear about other kids in my second child's class having no problems whatsoever with things that my child finds very hard. But when moms turn it around quickly and just ask questions about my child, and then act sympathetic, or compliment me or my son on handling his difficulties, it does help a lot.
I remembered this post today as I was dropping him off. We stood chatting with a couple of the other moms for a bit and they were talking excitedly about all the cool things their kids were learning and the great progress they were making with letter sounds and counting. I was just standing there smiling and nodding along, and luckily managed to escape having to say anything about my son on the topic aside from generic agreement that he's enjoying school. Because these are moms I'm just getting to know and trying to make a good impression on, so while I wouldn't have wanted to lie if asked outright, there was no way I could've felt comfortable revealing where he's at in relation to the curriculum without it coming off as bragging.
In a way it was like being in school and hiding good grades from classmates all over again, or never raising my hand when I knew the right answer to a question. It's sort of sad and I just really hope my son doesn't ever feel like that, like he needs to underperform out of social pressure or hide the fact that he's smart. While also not being showy about it. I don't know. I feel like those are real issues, and not easy ones to navigate and find a balance
This is also part of the reason I'm so much in favor of tracking and gifted programs. Many people here mentioned just relaxing ad letting him be at the top of the class (later on, not talking K), that there's nothing wrong with that. But I think while it sounds good on paper, at an age wrought with social pressure and fitting in this is the last thing most kids would want or need, to draw attention to themselves in that way. Sadly, while being something like the top athlete in school is celebrated by peers, being the best at math often isn't, and in fact can carry a stigma (unless you're both the best athlete and math whiz, then you can get away with it). So quite honestly, I'd much much rather have my kid be average in a group of really bright kids, than the top in a group of average kids.
I'll make the caveat that this is all based on experiences from my time at school and what I saw around me, not just my own schools. However maybe things and the school environment really changed since then, and being smart and good at math is now as celebrated as much as being star athlete...I really don't know for sure, not really knowing any families with middle or high school kids at the moment. So that is a possibility. In my school years, at least until senior year when colleges and grades mattered more, it wasn't 'cool' to get good grades or study. It was 'cool' to goof off, make smart-ass remarks to the teacher, be class clown, or do your nails with sparkly polish in class. In short it was teen movie cliche exemplified. And no it wasn't a particularly bad school, though not the best. Maybe things changed since then?
First, you don't have to brag about your son to take part in those conversations. Find something that your son found challenging, like not getting lost in the school or finding books in the library that interest him or learning how to be social and comment on that progress.
Second, your experience in high school is exactly that...yours. Everyone's is different. Finding a small niche in a large and diverse group can actually be accomplished fairly easily. Being immersed in a student body of those with top grades means a much less diverse group and there is absolutely no guarantee one will find a place to belong.
My 3rd daughter is a senior. The student who will likely be the valedictorian of their class is a very well rounded student. She is the student body president, a class officer, NHS officer, on the drill team and plays 2 sports. Well, there is probably more but that is what I do know about. She is highly regarded by the students and staff from everything I have seen and what my daughter has told me about her. The student ranked either 2 or 3 right now has made all region choir, won an award for her video on diversity and is a talented artist with many awards there as well. Many of the students in the top 10% are this way. My daughter is #5 and one of the few who doesn't care to participate in so many different things, however even in this typical high school environment has thrived academically and is currently a National Merit Semifinalist with nothing in the way to prevent her becoming a finalist.
High school really isn't about the stereotypical problems unless the students allow it to become that. Ours do not.
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