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I don't think that is what the PP meant. Although I don't agree with his/her post about teachers not spending enough time with their students, neither is it the parents' job to check homework or answer more than simple questions about it. The parents' obligation should be to provide a place for homework and give the kid time to do it, e.g. making homework, not chores around the house or other activities, a priority on school nights.
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You remind me of a unionized ticket office clerk in a foreign country who once told me he couldn't sell me the day ticket, only a monthly ticket, since the day ticket person only did that. They sat behind the same counter. The train was leaving in 5 and the day ticket person was nowhere to be found. No doubt in the canteen crossing his arms about what his job was and wasn't.
That's the parents' MINIMUM obligation. That's the minimum that you should do to be a "good parent".
If parenting were graded, that would get you a nice passing C in the parenting subject of "making education a priority".
Well, thank you! What's a "B"? Doing the HW yourself? What do you need for an "A"? Are you supposed to do the homework and then take it over to the school yourself? Who is supposed to be learning?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7
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You remind me of a unionized ticket office clerk in a foreign country who once told me he couldn't sell me the day ticket, only a monthly ticket, since the day ticket person only did that. They sat behind the same counter. The train was leaving in 5 and the day ticket person was nowhere to be found. No doubt in the canteen crossing his arms about what his job was and wasn't.
Well, thank you! What's a "B"? Doing the HW yourself? What do you need for an "A"? Are you supposed to do the homework and then take it over to the school yourself? Who is supposed to be learning?
Nope, doing the homework yourself is an F. That teaches the child nothing.
Your method, of providing a space and time, answering simple questions only if asked, and otherwise being completely hands off, is a C, because it only teaches the child what the child can teach himself, plus whatever they happen to get from the classroom teacher. That's the minimum for a good education.
You get a B if you make an effort to give the child a better education than the minimum good education. Move to a good district. Pay for a private school. Do some extras. Get some tutoring if they get a bad grade. Find out what they like and send them to a camp or some other novel educational experience.
You get an A if you make it a priority to give the child the best education that you possibly can, and take responsibility for it. Get to know your child's teacher, and form an "educational team" with them in the education of your child, and work with them. Supplement what they are learning in school at home, and keep open lines of communication with the teacher, and ask for advice and input. Evaluate your child by interactively teaching them, and occasionally sitting at their elbow while they work on practicing what you taught them, or what school taught them, and determine where they excel, and where they struggle. Know what their learning style is by trying different things with your children and see which ones work best. Know what your child loves to do, what your child hates to do, and why. Use all of this knowledge to improve the methods being used to teach your child, whether at the school, or at home if it's not practical to do it at school. Use the knowledge to make an educated guess as to your child's own potential. If you can't figure it out, enlist the help of professionals, get them evaluated and tested and be a part of the process. Once you know your child's potential and interests, PUSH them, push them to accomplish their dreams.
When they are little, read to them non-stop. Easy stuff, hard stuff, classical stuff, modern stuff, read read read. Then teach them to read. Spend time with them every day learning letters, letter sounds, how to blend. Try one phonics program, if it doesn't work, try another, or make your own. Celebrate each incremental success with your child. When they are older, keep reading. Get them workbooks at the bookstore, let them pick them if you like, give rewards for finishing them. Get extra books that go along with what they are learning at school. Get supplemental vocabulary programs and create word walls in your home. Encourage writing, get them pretty/cool journals and diaries. Have them write letters to Grandma. Have them write about what they are doing in school. Have them tell you what they are learning in school, every day. Use the knowledge to their benefit.
Research every TV show, computer game, or iPad app for it's educational content, and get the ones that really teach something, and watch or play them with your child. Buy or make math manipulatives and teach your child arithmetic with them. Learn 20 different ways to think about 1+1. Practice multiplication tables with them. If they like math, research the best math curriculums on the internet, and then do it at home with your child after school. If they like science, buy or make science kits and do experiments on the weekends. If they like writing, take them to writing workshops, and help them write their own "books". Teach them a musical instrument, and LEARN IT ALONG WITH THEM if you don't know how to play it. Play duets. Host family performances. Teach them how to practice something very hard every day for years, and let them see the results.
Evaluate every avenue of supplemental education for your child that you have available to you, and pick the ones that would be the best for your child, and do them. Homeschool/afterschool curriculums, workbooks, activity kits, online educational programs, community programs, local garden programs, zoo programs, museum programs, theater programs, library programs, tutoring programs, Kumon, Sylvan, math team groups, science Olympiad groups, local art studios, literary conventions, summer camps, spring break camps, foreign language immersion camps, foreign language DVD programs, on and on and on. If you suspect your child has a learning disability, get them evaluated by every possible specialist, as soon as possible, call them yourself don't wait for someone else to pick up the ball, research all the therapies, hire therapists, research all of the government programs out there that are there to help you hire therapists, research how to continue the therapy yourself at home in between sessions, enlist the help of grandma or grandpa or auntie and teach them too and have them come help, ask local experts which are the best schools for handling your child's particular difficulty and then do what you have to to get to that school, move if you have to.
Research educational theory, how best to teach children. Research parenting styles and parenting advice that have actual scientific studies showing the merits of the advice. Research early childhood development. Research homeschooling methods, charter school methods, private school methods, pre-schooling methods, catholic school methods. Research education around the world, who does well at what, and how do they do it. Examine the results of your research in context, and don't allow yourself to be biased by political or religious considerations. Use your knowledge to improve the education of your child.
Talk to your children about school, about why it's important, about what it's leading to, talk to them about this every day. Tell them what is coming next, tell them about college, tell them about careers, about life, be INTERESTED in what they want to do, what their dreams are, and why. Find out their dreams early, and then research together what it takes to achieve them. Sit down with your kids and together plan out what they have to do to reach their dreams. Provide everything you possibly can to help them learn how to achieve their dreams. Teach them how to come up with a goal, figure out what it takes to achieve that goal, make a plan, execute the plan, and adapt the plan as time goes on and things change. Push them to want, push them to do, push them to look back and be proud of what they did.
Or, you could do none of that crap, and accuse any parent who claims to be "involved" of being a cheater who does their kid's work for them, so that you have an excuse for not doing it.
Research educational theory, how best to teach children. Research parenting styles and parenting advice that have actual scientific studies showing the merits of the advice. Research early childhood development. Research homeschooling methods, charter school methods, private school methods, pre-schooling methods, catholic school methods. Research education around the world, who does well at what, and how do they do it. Examine the results of your research in context, and don't allow yourself to be biased by political or religious considerations. Use your knowledge to improve the education of your child.
I thought that's what my $1,000+ per month in property taxes was paying the teachers to do, who knew?
Look, I agree with much of what you say but if you are seriously doing everything in your post, then it is just way over the top. My wife and I are both highly educated and successful, and we certainly won't be doing much of what you're doing. We're teaching our children personal responsibility and the benefits of doing well in school, but we're not holding their hands (or their teachers' hands) through the process. In my opinion, the process is more important than the actual knowledge gained. Having a diligent kid who can't remember Pi is far superior to a kid who needs his mom next to him so that he will focus on his homework but can spout off complex mathematical theorems from memory.
Parents getting this involved in their kids education, unless home schooling, are not helping anything. They are just turning childhood into a more-than-full-time job. Those kids will have 40+ years in their career to work from morning to night, no need to start it at such a young age.
I thought that's what my $1,000+ per month in property taxes was paying the teachers to do, who knew?
$1000 a month you say? For the education of your child? Is that all it's worth to you? The tiny portion of the $1000 that the public school actually gets that goes towards your child doesn't go very far in a month. I might mention, you generally get what you pay for. I suppose if you think that's all you need then that's what works for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCresident2014
Look, I agree with much of what you say but if you are seriously doing everything in your post, then it is just way over the top.
Of course it is. I was asked to describe what would constitute an "A" in the educational aspect in parenting. An A is not given to "good enough", or even "above average". An A is given only to excellent. To the best. What I describe is what I call 99th percentile parenting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCresident2014
My wife and I are both highly educated and successful, and we certainly won't be doing much of what you're doing.
Not all parents aim for 99% parenting. Perhaps you feel 90% is good enough for your family. That's your call. You're the parents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCresident2014
We're teaching our children personal responsibility and the benefits of doing well in school, but we're not holding their hands (or their teachers' hands) through the process.
Tailoring and enrichment and 1-on-1 instruction is not "holding their hands". Pretend for a moment that there was a private school that advertised that they did all of the things I listed in my post, at a price you could afford. It would be fantastic and desirable, would it not? Why is it great if a school does it and bad if a parent does it? I think it's great if either one does it. Many very expensive private schools do much of what I listed. A regular parent can also do it for much cheaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCresident2014
Having a diligent kid who can't remember Pi is far superior to a kid who needs his mom next to him so that he will focus on his homework but can spout off complex mathematical theorems from memory.
Of course. But if you are fully involved in your child's education, then you would be able to catch your child's problems with focus very early, before a lot of time was wasted. You would immediately start researching ways to help your child learn to focus without external stimuli, such as mom, and would teach those things to your child. You would help your child figure out what personal processes work best for him to keep himself on track and motivated without a teacher or mother or boss nagging. You would help your child practice these processes, follow up, evaluate, and support. You would seek occupational or behavioral therapy if needed, and continue to work on the issue until such time as your child was able to focus with you, without you, with distractions, without distractions, under pressure, and across different contexts and environments. And ALSO be able to spout off complex mathematical theorems from memory.
Which is "better than a diligent kid who can't remember Pi", to put it in your terms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCresident2014
Parents getting this involved in their kids education, unless home schooling, are not helping anything. They are just turning childhood into a more-than-full-time job. Those kids will have 40+ years in their career to work from morning to night, no need to start it at such a young age.
None of what I listed require a child to work from morning to night, far from it. What I describe requires the parent to actually pay attention to their child for 30 minutes a night? Maybe an hour, if you're doing something together, like playing piano? A few hours on the weekend for a few pages of workbook and a fun project or outing? These time requirements are not too much for a child. Children love it when their parents pay attention to them. Now, the time requirements may be too much for a parent, if a parent does not consider spending time with their child to be a priority. It is very true that I spend a whole lot less time on the couch or on the computer in the evenings than I did before I had kids.
Nope, doing the homework yourself is an F. That teaches the child nothing.
Your method, of providing a space and time, answering simple questions only if asked, and otherwise being completely hands off, is a C, because it only teaches the child what the child can teach himself, plus whatever they happen to get from the classroom teacher. That's the minimum for a good education.
You get a B if you make an effort to give the child a better education than the minimum good education. Move to a good district. Pay for a private school. Do some extras. Get some tutoring if they get a bad grade. Find out what they like and send them to a camp or some other novel educational experience.
You get an A if you make it a priority to give the child the best education that you possibly can, and take responsibility for it. Get to know your child's teacher, and form an "educational team" with them in the education of your child, and work with them. Supplement what they are learning in school at home, and keep open lines of communication with the teacher, and ask for advice and input. Evaluate your child by interactively teaching them, and occasionally sitting at their elbow while they work on practicing what you taught them, or what school taught them, and determine where they excel, and where they struggle. Know what their learning style is by trying different things with your children and see which ones work best. Know what your child loves to do, what your child hates to do, and why. Use all of this knowledge to improve the methods being used to teach your child, whether at the school, or at home if it's not practical to do it at school. Use the knowledge to make an educated guess as to your child's own potential. If you can't figure it out, enlist the help of professionals, get them evaluated and tested and be a part of the process. Once you know your child's potential and interests, PUSH them, push them to accomplish their dreams.
When they are little, read to them non-stop. Easy stuff, hard stuff, classical stuff, modern stuff, read read read. Then teach them to read. Spend time with them every day learning letters, letter sounds, how to blend. Try one phonics program, if it doesn't work, try another, or make your own. Celebrate each incremental success with your child. When they are older, keep reading. Get them workbooks at the bookstore, let them pick them if you like, give rewards for finishing them. Get extra books that go along with what they are learning at school. Get supplemental vocabulary programs and create word walls in your home. Encourage writing, get them pretty/cool journals and diaries. Have them write letters to Grandma. Have them write about what they are doing in school. Have them tell you what they are learning in school, every day. Use the knowledge to their benefit.
Research every TV show, computer game, or iPad app for it's educational content, and get the ones that really teach something, and watch or play them with your child. Buy or make math manipulatives and teach your child arithmetic with them. Learn 20 different ways to think about 1+1. Practice multiplication tables with them. If they like math, research the best math curriculums on the internet, and then do it at home with your child after school. If they like science, buy or make science kits and do experiments on the weekends. If they like writing, take them to writing workshops, and help them write their own "books". Teach them a musical instrument, and LEARN IT ALONG WITH THEM if you don't know how to play it. Play duets. Host family performances. Teach them how to practice something very hard every day for years, and let them see the results.
Evaluate every avenue of supplemental education for your child that you have available to you, and pick the ones that would be the best for your child, and do them. Homeschool/afterschool curriculums, workbooks, activity kits, online educational programs, community programs, local garden programs, zoo programs, museum programs, theater programs, library programs, tutoring programs, Kumon, Sylvan, math team groups, science Olympiad groups, local art studios, literary conventions, summer camps, spring break camps, foreign language immersion camps, foreign language DVD programs, on and on and on. If you suspect your child has a learning disability, get them evaluated by every possible specialist, as soon as possible, call them yourself don't wait for someone else to pick up the ball, research all the therapies, hire therapists, research all of the government programs out there that are there to help you hire therapists, research how to continue the therapy yourself at home in between sessions, enlist the help of grandma or grandpa or auntie and teach them too and have them come help, ask local experts which are the best schools for handling your child's particular difficulty and then do what you have to to get to that school, move if you have to.
Research educational theory, how best to teach children. Research parenting styles and parenting advice that have actual scientific studies showing the merits of the advice. Research early childhood development. Research homeschooling methods, charter school methods, private school methods, pre-schooling methods, catholic school methods. Research education around the world, who does well at what, and how do they do it. Examine the results of your research in context, and don't allow yourself to be biased by political or religious considerations. Use your knowledge to improve the education of your child.
Talk to your children about school, about why it's important, about what it's leading to, talk to them about this every day. Tell them what is coming next, tell them about college, tell them about careers, about life, be INTERESTED in what they want to do, what their dreams are, and why. Find out their dreams early, and then research together what it takes to achieve them. Sit down with your kids and together plan out what they have to do to reach their dreams. Provide everything you possibly can to help them learn how to achieve their dreams. Teach them how to come up with a goal, figure out what it takes to achieve that goal, make a plan, execute the plan, and adapt the plan as time goes on and things change. Push them to want, push them to do, push them to look back and be proud of what they did.
Or, you could do none of that crap, and accuse any parent who claims to be "involved" of being a cheater who does their kid's work for them, so that you have an excuse for not doing it.
I'm on my kindle right now; it's hard to bold, so bear with me. Hardly anything you said applies to homework. Send your kid to private schools? Why, when the public schools in one's distric are excellent? Bragging rights?
What makes you think I/we didn't get to know our kids' teachers and form this little"team" you're talking about? What makes you think we didn't read to them, do enrichment activities with them, talk about school, college and careers with them? Why would we have sent our kids to Catholic schools when one of us is a card-carrying Lutheran and the other is an agnostic? Why should we have done all this educational research when we're not professional educators (though DH did teach college physics and I taught pre-natal classes both in a high school and elsewhere; plus spent a career basically doing patient education). We had our own jobs to do!
We also did fun things with our kids, like teach them how to ski. They did gymnastics through high school and both were team captains their senior year. They did orchestra, violin and cello. We took vacations to the beach. supported that, too. You have some chutzpah telling others they're only 90% parents because they don't do things the way you think they should.
Before you make the prediction that my kids will end up living under a bridge, allow me to tell you that one has a doctorate and one has a master's degree. Both are working and successful.
I'm on my kindle right now; it's hard to bold, so bear with me. Hardly anything you said applies to homework. Send your kid to private schools? Why, when the public schools in one's distric are excellent? Bragging rights?
What makes you think I/we didn't get to know our kids' teachers and form this little"team" you're talking about? What makes you think we didn't read to them, do enrichment activities with them, talk about school, college and careers with them? Why would we have sent our kids to Catholic schools when one of us is a card-carrying Lutheran and the other is an agnostic? Why should we have done all this educational research when we're not professional educators (though DH did teach college physics and I taught pre-natal classes both in a high school and elsewhere; plus spent a career basically doing patient education). We had our own jobs to do!
We also did fun things with our kids, like teach them how to ski. They did gymnastics through high school and both were team captains their senior year. They did orchestra, violin and cello. We took vacations to the beach. supported that, too. You have some chutzpah telling others they're only 90% parents because they don't do things the way you think they should.
Before you make the prediction that my kids will end up living under a bridge, allow me to tell you that one has a doctorate and one has a master's degree. Both are working and successful.
I never said you didn't do any of this stuff. I said that giving your kid time and space to do homework, asking if they did it, and being hands-off to any more than that is the minimum. Just that, in my opinion, merits a "C". You asked me what I thought would merit an "A". I told you. I made no assertions as to how I think you raised your kids. I have no idea how you raised your kids. If you want to tell me though, I would be interested. It sounds like you did a good job.
Yes I do have chutzpah. I have chutzpah because it makes people like you respond, and give me other ideas, views, and perspectives than my own. I often learn a lot from other folks who respond to this sort of chutzpah. The more I learn, the better parent I can be.
You mentioned you had your own jobs to do. So do I, I have a full time paid career. But I consider it to be my second job. Being a parent always comes first for me. I only work because it's what's best for my children.
I never said you didn't do any of this stuff. I said that giving your kid time and space to do homework, asking if they did it, and being hands-off to any more than that is the minimum. Just that, in my opinion, merits a "C". You asked me what I thought would merit an "A". I told you. I made no assertions as to how I think you raised your kids. I have no idea how you raised your kids. If you want to tell me though, I would be interested. It sounds like you did a good job.
Yes I do have chutzpah. I have chutzpah because it makes people like you respond, and give me other ideas, views, and perspectives than my own. I often learn a lot from other folks who respond to this sort of chutzpah. The more I learn, the better parent I can be.
You mentioned you had your own jobs to do. So do I, I have a full time paid career. But I consider it to be my second job. Being a parent always comes first for me. I only work because it's what's best for my children.
And the rest of us who do things differently are NOT doing what's best for our kids! Got it.
BTW, you still have not discussed homework, per se. Moving school districts, enrichment activities, etc have nothing to do with H W.
Most of the comments, including those from parents who are also educators, are more in line with mine than with this extreme helicopter/tiger mom-dad approach.
I honestly suspect, pkab5, that you used my post as some sort of stepping stone to point out your philosophy.
EvilCookie, it is now early November, do you have an update about what is going on in kindergarten?
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