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If your daughter didn't do anything wrong, why would she want to move on to another class?
Because she knows that this teacher won't ever treat her fairly, since she'll always associate her with this incident. It also seems that this teacher dislikes high achieving students, and is clearly detrimental to this student's education.
I already explained in an earlier post that when I called the parent I always offered to either give the child a zero or have the child retake the exam after school, and would explain to them that while the choice was up to the parent my preference would be for them to take the exam. Giving a zero defeats my whole purpose in giving exams, I can't assess whether they learned the material if it isn't graded.
Exactly! That is why it is so wrong for teachers to use 0's as a way to discipline high achieving students. That is why I cannot respect the OP's daughter's teacher.
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Contrary to what too many believe the purpose of going to school is not to get grades but to learn
The irony is that the same teachers who gave 0's to high achieving students for disciplinary purposes were often the same teacher who argued that you should learn for learning sake, and not for the grade. And they were the same teachers who would label students as "grade grubbers" if they wanted an obviously incorrect grade corrected.
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. I spent a lot of time creating my tests and every question tested a particular concept. So, I didn't give different versions, nor I didn't dock them any points.
One way to give different versions of a test to make it harder to cheat, while testing everybody on the same concepts, and with minimal extra effort by the teacher, is to give everybody the same questions but in different orders. Another possibility is, at least in a math or physics class, to give everybody questions that cover the same topics, but using different numbers.
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You actually haven't been reasonable but okay. Do you really think the superintendent is going to get all bent out of shape over a child who got one zero in a cheating situation? They may pay you lip service but they aren't going to punish the teacher over it. At most, they may try to convince the teacher to drop the test. You may not be aware of it but in about half the states it is against the law for a school administrator to force a teacher to change a grade or to take disciplinary action over a student's grade unless it is a pervasive pattern.
The superintendent may not be willing or able to override a grade or punish a teacher, but he/she can and should request that all involved parties meet with each other to calmly and politely discuss the situation, and to hopefully come up with a compromise solution. I still argue that a possible compromise would be for the student to serve the detention, and to have an agreement that if the student behaves for the rest of the semester, that the 0 be expunged from her record.
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No lawyer would take you case. Neither you or child have suffered real damages. A zero in elementary or middle school is of no consequence.
This thread right here is why I feel deeply for teachers trying to teach today. I'm sorry you have to deal with this crap folks, really am. I feel as though critical thinking has simply evaporated from the ability list of people in many areas and they have no interest in anything other than what fills their confirmation bias.
My snowflake is right. You are wrong. I don't care about the facts, I'm yanking her from class and talking to your boss just because. I don't need to talk to you because when I was in third grade I was treated unfairly! Since things didn't go my way or the way I would of handled it 100% that makes me angry and you're wrong!
Wow.
This thread right here is why I feel deeply for students trying to learn today. I'm sorry you have to deal with these bully teachers, I really am.
This kid is in 6th grade in a middle school, not an elementary school. For Student "A" to cheat off Student "B", B would have to leave her test paper (if it was a test) on the very edge of her desk so A could see the answers.
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Originally Posted by lkb0714
Why are you assuming its single desks? Not a single classroom in my school has single desks. In fact of the dozens of schools I have taught in or had PD in only the very old ones had single desks.
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Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
Good For You! I was responding to someone who was talking about desks in an elementary school.
True. But it seems that this teacher hates high achieving students, and hates the OP's daughter in particular. It is unlikely that this teacher will ever give the OP's daughter a fair chance. As I've said, I've had plenty of teachers in the past who hated high achieving students. Giving out 0's for disciplinary purposes was a favorite tactic of theirs. As another poster said later in this thread, giving 0's for disciplinary reasons defeats the purpose of giving grades, which is to assess whether or not the student knows the material.
But if this teacher made up his/her mind that the OP's daughter is trouble, there is nothing that the OP's daughter can do to change the teacher's mind. Again, I've had teachers like that.
I might not have worded it well. What I meant is that just because you or other posters had different experiences does not make my experience or the OP's daugther's experience invalid. Some teachers, such as may of the ones I had, discriminated against high achieving students. Keep in mind that students have only a relatively small sample of teachers, and it is not a random sample, since students only have teachers that were hired by 1 district over a relatively short period of time.
Evidence-concrete!
Evidence-concrete!
Evidence-concrete!
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Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
Normally I would agree. But I think that this is an extreme case where the teacher is completely unable to treat the OP's daughter objectively.
Having said that, it still depends on how high the stakes are in 6th grade in the OP's district. Again, in my district, 6th grade was high stakes, since it determined who was in honors (and eventually AP) classes for the next 6 years. However, other posters said that 6th grade was meaningless in their district. If this is a district where 6th grade doesn't matter so much, then maybe it's best for the OP's daughter to tough it out for the year, since, like it or not, we have to deal with people that we don't like in the real world.
I realize you are burdened by nonsensical rules, please don't prejudge what I wouldn't want. I raise my son to take accountability for all of his actions and that includes his test scores is you want to post his scores on the front door of the school and he is ashamed of the results he better study harder next time.
Can you answer this? Did they miss the same questions?
I realize you want me to take your word for this but I don't think you are sacrosanct or infallible; you do make mistakes right?
Son, don't humiliate yourself and give away your integrity; did you or did you not knowingly allow this kid to copy off of you? N/Y assuming N
Well Mr. educator it seems there are only three possibilities.
My son is a liar.
You are a liar.
You are in error.
Regardless of which is true I don't have any faith that you are capable of being object towards my son after this incident. Therefore we will need to move to a different teacher.
I would appreciate it if you could proctor my son a different version of the test at your convenience. Y/N
assuming N
You see the reality is my son doesn't know this other student and has a documented Stanford Benet V IQ of 138. He doesn't have to cheat to pass your test and he there is no logical reason why he would go against every value our family holds dear and sacrifice his integrity for a stranger.
Assuming the answer is still N
Well I have tried to be reasonable with you Mr. Educator but for some reason you want to see how far we can push this. I can only assume you aren't a fool and already have your boss the principal in your back pocket. Therefore I will be seeing the superintendent tomorrow; I will mention other concerns as to your teaching (throw dirt here). Ultimately I guess my lawyer Mr. Straihorn will have to handle it after that as I really don't have the time to dedicate to this right now. Should you reconsider you have my email. I strongly caution you not to take retaliatory action against my son based on our differences.
I don't know about your school system, but in the huge system where I was a principal, this would have gone nowhere. The teacher is the adult in the classroom.
Thanks for the tip my son had those skills I had him in martial arts at five. He was the Captain of the wrestling team and worked out with the German adult bundesliga (semi pro) wrestling and judo team by age 15. "stop looking at my paper or I will hit you so hard you will have an eidetic memory for the next year; that way you won't have to cheat anymore."
I also taught him not to tolerate bullying from anyone including teachers.
Go back to your own post about what you tell the teacher and principal. That in itself is bullying.
Why do you automatically assume the teacher is right?
It isn't a question of assuming that the teacher is always right. The teacher is the adult in the classroom. Without information to the contrary, it generally is legally and practically assumed that the teacher fulfills their legal responsibilities.
Teachers are sometimes wrong. As a principal, there were times I sided with students and reprimanded teachers. But I would say that well over 90% of the time the teacher is fulfilling his/her responsibility properly.
The world is not run by children. And shouldn't be. Even wonderful children lie in certain situations.
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