Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There are many majors that don't require a single math class. That's not the point. The point is that a math class lower than Calculus doesn't belong in a 4 yr college catalog. Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry are high school level classes. They should not be taught as a college credit class in a 4 yr college.
Think of, for example, a music major. Learning to read musical notation is required for that field - but they don't teach that at a 4 yr college, for credit. They assume that you have learned to do that before you enter college, if you're going to take music theory classes. If you haven't, then you go take an intro to piano "enrichment" class at a Community College.
The point being they shouldn't need them by the time of college. It costs time and money to provide these in school. Then more time and money to provide them again in college. It's a waste of resources to do something twice.
Then you limit the opportunity of a college education to a select few. Maybe that's the way it should be, I don't know. The solution perhaps, is to force these students into the community college systems, and not admit them to universities if they show academic deficiencies.
Warning - Washington Post has a paywall. You get the first few articles free.
In this feel good story, a man who is a senior at Morehouse college (a historically black college in Atlanta, GA) had to bring his baby to class with him. The professor offered to hold the baby while he taught, so that the student could take notes. What a sweet and supportive prof!
But the real issue here is that the material being taught is high school algebra, even first year of algebra. This is material that, in my district, the most advanced students take in 7th grade, the moderately advanced students take in 8th grade, and the majority of students take in 9th grade. This is essentially remedial math, that should not be offered for college credit, but just as remedial preparation for students who enter college unprepared for college level math, that is taken for no credit. And this is a senior taking what is essentially remedial math? I don't care if you call it "College" algebra. It's still remedial math, whether you call it "High School" or "College".
The real issue is YOU need to go take a remedial Literature or English class and study comprehension.
This article and your idea of the "real issue"
Don't match.
Way to crap on human compassion.
Or is it the wrong shade for you?
I took a remedial math class when I started college, it had been quite a few years since HS, though I breezed through Navy electronic schools and did math I needed just fine, I did not remember anything that I never use in my day to day life, so I did not score high enough on the math assessment and was required to take a remedial math class.
The class did not count towards any credits, but did count towards my status at college regarding if I was part or full time student.
The point that I was trying to make is that people who need remedial coursework for high school level Math and English don't belong in college - they belong in a community college. Tuition at Morehouse is about 30K/yr, and it's 50K/yr including room and board. Sure, many people are getting all sorts of public and private scholarships to attend (and taking out loans to attend, too) - but if they need remedial instruction in Math and English, should they be receiving taxpayer scholarships and taxpayer backed loans to do this remedial work at a four year college at six to ten times the cost of a community college? Community college costs usually no more than 5-6K/yr for tuition and fees, often less, and people usually live at home. So where does it make sense to go, if you need to do high school level work, but are too old for high school? Obviously, if you yourself are paying the tuition bill, it makes financial sense to do this remedial work at a community college, and go to a four year college when you are ready to do college level work. Should taxpayers, and tax-exempt college endowments, be paying for people to do remedial coursework at six to ten times the cost that it would be at a community college?
No, that wasn't your point. Your very specific, articulated point, was that this math class demonstrates the 'dumbing down of college'. I'm quoting your thread title. Now you're trying to change your story.
Beyond that, your current claim is absurd. If someone simply needs one 0-level mathematics course, it would be beyond inconvenient to refrain from enrolling in a university so one could take that single course at a community college. The small savings would hardly be worth the hassle of having to later transfer for no other reason than that single course.
The numbers your throwing out are all off - not surprisingly, in ways to make your new argument (which is all about cost, and nothing to do with a supposed 'dumbing down') better. Tuition at Morehouse for a full course load is $25,300/year. To hit $30k/year, a student would have to take 26 credits in a semester, when a 15-credit load is full-time and on track for a four-year graduation. Yet you decided to claim that Morehouse costs 'about 30k'. My numbers come straight from Morehouse's website: https://www.morehouse.edu/academics/..._requirements/
Also, you've inflated the costs of attending Morehouse by including room and board and ignoring that people still need a place to live when they attend a community college. In this specific case, this married man was 'living at home', all right - in a home that costs money. Yet you include 'room and board' in your Morehouse expense example (which doesn't apply here, because he's not living on-campus) and don't include it in the community college example despite the fact that living with Mom and Dad obviously isn't an option for the man in the article. A perusal of Atlanta community college (Morehouse is in Atlanta) also shows that you've lowballed the costs of attending those as well.
Finally, you've ignored that Morehouse gives out substantial in-house (ie, private, nothing to do with taxpayers) funding, as it has an endowment of $135 million. Community colleges have virtually nothing in the way of endowments to generate aid and are almost entirely depending on state and federal loans.
You know that saying about when you're in a hole, you should stop digging? It applies here.
Unless you TESTED INTO Algebra I in the 8th grade (yes, I just said that), your four years in HS looked like this:
9th - Algebra I
10th - Geometry (this is when they encouraged the students to take the SAT, despite it containing Algebra II material)
11th - Algebra II
12th - Trig (4.0) or Pre-cal (5.0 or honors course)
This was my high school math experience. I finished high school in the early 2000s. I think 12th grade math was an elective. Trigonometry in 12th grade was a real pain. Definitely affected my quality of life that year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal
The problem is there are too many colleges and too few students.
Colleges are now admitting students that would have been rejected in the 1970/80's
As a culture, we are sending too many people to college. More people should be going to vocational and trade schools, or just going straight from high school into the workforce. Our high schools are doing a lousy job preparing people for work. Before the mid 1970s, it was a viable path to go straight from high school to the workforce and have an ok job. Now, if you go straight from high school to the workforce, you are likely to be working at Walmart, or maybe on the sales floor at Dillard's or Macy's if you excel a little bit, and until Dillard's and Macy's go under as a lot of dept store retail is now doing.
This was my high school math experience. I finished high school in the early 2000s. I think 12th grade math was an elective. Trigonometry in 12th grade was a real pain. Definitely affected my quality of life that year.
As a culture, we are sending too many people to college. More people should be going to vocational and trade schools, or just going straight from high school into the workforce. Our high schools are doing a lousy job preparing people for work. Before the mid 1970s, it was a viable path to go straight from high school to the workforce and have an ok job. Now, if you go straight from high school to the workforce, you are likely to be working at Walmart, or maybe on the sales floor at Dillard's or Macy's if you excel a little bit, and until Dillard's and Macy's go under as a lot of dept store retail is now doing.
Higher education needs a lot of reform.
Those "good jobs right out of high school" until the mid - 1970s were primarily in factories or mines, and were more competitive to get than common knowledge would have you believe. How many of those jobs exist today?
We were told for decades, and had to teach to it, that the US was transitioning to a service economy. That was happening pre - NAFTA and ramped up afterward. So people paying attention 30 years ago, I was one, could foresee that jobs for the average high school graduate were going to be some of the ones you mentioned when you get to today.
Then you limit the opportunity of a college education to a select few. Maybe that's the way it should be, I don't know. The solution perhaps, is to force these students into the community college systems, and not admit them to universities if they show academic deficiencies.
Not everyone should go to college. Some should, some should go to trade school. Not everyone has the same talents.
College is not high school. If they have to re teach what high school should have taught, then what did the high school do?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
