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This made me chuckle. One of the pieces of advice I've given people (mostly parents) -- since retiring -- who are trying to deal with a school system (as well as any other business or governmental agency (etc.), is put everything in writing. Don't need to make threats at all. Just put everything in writing. For example: "I wanted to summarize what went on at our meeting last Tuesday...". I am telling you folks, putting things in writing often gets balls rolling (so to speak). Having said that, there may be times when that could work against you (so you have to use good judgement), and you need to keep such 'records' concise and accurate (which some people can't do). But under the right circumstances, it works wonders.
Every time I met with one particular Principal I always sent a post-meeting email summarizing what we'd discussed and what decisions we'd made on whatever issues were discussed.
This was for anything AP and the self-study year and run-up to the Middle States reaccreditation.
Put in 60+ hours a week for a job that'll never pay enough to afford a house? No. Going to put what's needed only, so we can get to our 2nd jobs on time.
The 60+ work hours per week thing is a canard. The BLS and other sources make it clear that teachers work all of fewer hours per day, week, month and year than nearly any other profession.
Lots of teachers own homes as well.
Further, everyone going into teaching knows the pay + benefits + work expectations and seniority over merit rubric in advance.
Finally we hear various claims about where teachers fit on the academic side v. other professions. The best source we have is probably GRE scores with one big caveat......education major participation rates are much lower than other areas meaning edu. GRE results overstate cadre quality. Most education graduate programs do not require the GRE for admission.
From the GRE people 2022 (verbal reasoning + quantitative reasoning) scores:
Physical Sciences 311
Engineering 310
Law 308
Business 307
Humanities 306
Education 298
To be sure teachers earn all sorts of degrees, however, the bottom line is a relatively underperforming cadre is not going to be paid as well as a top performing cadre. It's just not going to happen. If teachers want to be revered and thought of as professionally on par with engineers, dentists and lawyers the cadre must come almost exclusively from the top 1/3 college graduates. We are no where close to that now.
ETA - just wanted to add.......it probably seems like I am bashing teachers. That's not the case. I could not be a teacher. However, US education needs a strong dose of tough love if not more than that.
ETA II - the next time someone runs their mouth about STEM types not being well rounded refer to the above. The fact is STEM types are more well rounded than those who study softer areas.
I can only tell you what I experienced. We got rid of a drama teacher and a vice-principal, not to mention 'counseling' others out.
Anecdotal experience is pointless when a study examining school systems nationwide indicates that because of unions, it's extremely hard to fire an incompetent let alone criminal teacher.
Anecdotal experience is pointless when a study examining school systems nationwide indicates that because of unions, it's extremely hard to fire an incompetent let alone criminal teacher.
I won't argue about incompetent, but firing teachers for criminal behavior is not uncommon around Western PA. There are a couple of teachers from one district serving prison time over affairs with students that was well publicized. Another recent case was over taking drugs in the school parking lot.
Every time I met with one particular Principal I always sent a post-meeting email summarizing what we'd discussed and what decisions we'd made on whatever issues were discussed.
This was for anything AP and the self-study year and run-up to the Middle States reaccreditation.
The 60+ work hours per week thing is a canard. The BLS and other sources make it clear that teachers work all of fewer hours per day, week, month and year than nearly any other profession.
Lots of teachers own homes as well.
Further, everyone going into teaching knows the pay + benefits + work expectations and seniority over merit rubric in advance.
Finally we hear various claims about where teachers fit on the academic side v. other professions. The best source we have is probably GRE scores with one big caveat......education major participation rates are much lower than other areas meaning edu. GRE results overstate cadre quality. Most education graduate programs do not require the GRE for admission.
From the GRE people 2022 (verbal reasoning + quantitative reasoning) scores:
Physical Sciences 311
Engineering 310
Law 308
Business 307
Humanities 306
Education 298
To be sure teachers earn all sorts of degrees, however, the bottom line is a relatively underperforming cadre is not going to be paid as well as a top performing cadre. It's just not going to happen. If teachers want to be revered and thought of as professionally on par with engineers, dentists and lawyers the cadre must come almost exclusively from the top 1/3 college graduates. We are no where close to that now.
ETA - just wanted to add.......it probably seems like I am bashing teachers. That's not the case. I could not be a teacher. However, US education needs a strong dose of tough love if not more than that.
ETA II - the next time someone runs their mouth about STEM types not being well rounded refer to the above. The fact is STEM types are more well rounded than those who study softer areas.
And even those mediocre people find something better.
Pay them more and maybe the stronger grads will choose that route. Pay the same as anyone can make bartending and get what you pay for.
The 60+ work hours per week thing is a canard. The BLS and other sources make it clear that teachers work all of fewer hours per day, week, month and year than nearly any other profession.
Lots of teachers own homes as well.
Further, everyone going into teaching knows the pay + benefits + work expectations and seniority over merit rubric in advance.
Finally we hear various claims about where teachers fit on the academic side v. other professions. The best source we have is probably GRE scores with one big caveat......education major participation rates are much lower than other areas meaning edu. GRE results overstate cadre quality. Most education graduate programs do not require the GRE for admission.
From the GRE people 2022 (verbal reasoning + quantitative reasoning) scores:
Physical Sciences 311
Engineering 310
Law 308
Business 307
Humanities 306
Education 298
To be sure teachers earn all sorts of degrees, however, the bottom line is a relatively underperforming cadre is not going to be paid as well as a top performing cadre. It's just not going to happen. If teachers want to be revered and thought of as professionally on par with engineers, dentists and lawyers the cadre must come almost exclusively from the top 1/3 college graduates. We are no where close to that now.
ETA - just wanted to add.......it probably seems like I am bashing teachers. That's not the case. I could not be a teacher. However, US education needs a strong dose of tough love if not more than that.
ETA II - the next time someone runs their mouth about STEM types not being well rounded refer to the above. The fact is STEM types are more well rounded than those who study softer areas.
This may surprise some people, but I don't disagree with much of what you wrote.
HOWEVER...The average dentist earns $136,000/year. The average lawyer earns $126,930/year. The average teacher earns $58,950. Notice anything there?
Anecdotal experience is pointless when a study examining school systems nationwide indicates that because of unions, it's extremely hard to fire an incompetent let alone criminal teacher.
No, anecdotal information isn't pointless when the topic of the thread is "public education", in general. I've said this several times in this thread -- the critics here are painting too broad a brush.
Much has been discussed here over the past few years, all of it being valid and informative.
I have a new question to pose, seeing as it is topic related.
This morning I had a great conversation regarding testing with a recent nursing school grad.
She's terrified of the upcoming state exam, and I don't blame her; as I failed it in insurance related licensing; twice.
People she knows have already failed first attempts.
The issue we discussed is not being able to learn from our mistakes, and should this not be more incorporated into the learning process?. She felt the same as I did some 30 years ago, that in spite of graduating; she would of retained more had testing not been so punitive based.
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