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Tax cuts have always resulted in revenue gains. Massive new spending always exceeds them. You knew this though.
I know that you and lots of other Americans have swallowed the right wing talking point.
I've also been alive since 2000, when the latest round of tax cuts has taken hold. If those tax cuts increased revenue, the government and all programs would be in the black. They aren't. Of course, there has been massive spending, mostly coming from two unfunded wars that have served no national interest whatsoever. And the guys who started those wars are the ones now crying loudest about "deficits!"
I know that you and lots of other Americans have swallowed the right wing talking point.
I've also been alive since 2000, when the latest round of tax cuts has taken hold. If those tax cuts increased revenue, the government and all programs would be in the black.
I just covered this......Holy cow.
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They aren't. Of course, there has been massive spending, mostly coming from two unfunded wars that have served no national interest whatsoever. And the guys who started those wars are the ones now crying loudest about "deficits!"
I hear their cries. I snicker at their hypocrisy.
And here you note the problem. Revenue's increased but spending increased even more. Is this really that hard of a concept? Revenue's increase. Spending increases even more than revenue's. Deficits increase. That doesn't mean revenue's didn't increase.
Sir, you have changed your tune, since the below post you made in response to one of mind. You are not who you represent yourself - "a right leaning moderate " - to be. Reasonable folks who wish to dialog don't condescend, as you did. Nor do I believe you don't wish to argue. Anyway, I do not dialogue with folks who misrepresent themselves. Interestingly, this is the second time in as many days that I have found a progressive misrepresenting him/herself. Is this a new tactic?
Octa to Earthlyfather 08-06-2012, 12:54 PM "It's sad watching people like you assert your beliefs when you probably couldn't even tell me the basics of the spectrum or the socioeconomics and psychology of poverty. People who are overtly ideological are so attached to their ideology that they're almost incapable exercising any kind of independent thinking. It's as if their ideology is a substitute for a religion."
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Originally Posted by Octa
My apologies, I meant medicare not medicaid.
Some other questions:
1) Ryan plans to raise defense spending. Given your stance about budgeting, do you agree?
2) To balance the budget would you be willing to raise taxes on the wealthiest earners via letting those bush tax cuts expire?
Note: I say the wealthiest earners because an analysis released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis reveals that letting the cuts expire for earners below 250k would reduce the real gdp by 1.03 PP compared to .24 PP. In a recessed economy that is procyclical especially if you're convinced that the problem is with AD.
I echo some earlier sentiments about the seriousness of most of the GOP about fiscal issues since they want to raise defense spending and won't budget in regards to tax increases. Former GOP presidents in the past have done it so I don't know why it's a contentious issue now. Well I do now.
3) Have you taken some things into consideration in regards to Ryan's plan involving medicare with the primary one being economic uncertainty in the long term? Administrations come and go and can make changes to legislation. I take his multidecade projections with a grain of salt since they assume ceteris paribus. Another key consideration is how it cuts medicare. Beneficiaries receive it in the form of a voucher and the rest of the cost is shifted onto them. As we've seen over the past several decades health care cost have been rising. So if Romney wins and gets his way, a couple of things could happen:
1) Costs continue to rise and seniors have to pay more out of pocket for care
2) They forego care due to rising cost
3) They compromise their retirement to pay for care
4) Coverage decreases
Along with those, that is also the reason why I have little regard for Ryan's projections since we don't know what the long term consequences of what his voucher program will be.
I'm not looking for argue, I'm just looking for your opinion since you're the target demograph of plan and would be effected along with your peers. I'm a right leaning moderate and I will be supporting Mr. Obama because I highly disagree with the Ryan vision. I do think the SBP/PPACA is a much better starting ground for reform since other countries such as Germany, Switzerland, and Singapore still manage to restrain those cost through a regulated health exchange market with private insurers without cutting programs for the elderly and other demographs.
And here you note the problem. Revenue's increased but spending increased even more. Is this really that hard of a concept? Revenue's increase. Spending increases even more than revenue's. Deficits increase. That doesn't mean revenue's didn't increase.
You have yet to make any point about tax cuts = revenue increases. You keep parroting the phrase but offer nothing to back it up. Other posters have shown that it's not true and you choose to ignore it and keep repeating the talking point.
It is always better to be responsible for oneself, to as great a degree as possible. No matter what happens. No matter what does not happen.
Don't you think Mrs Fat-a--ed Senior, smoker, with type 2 diabetes and emphysema, might have made different choices, if she'd known she would have to pay for the results of the choices.
Sure, there are the less fortunate, in need etc, etc, that we can and will provide for, but they are far fewer in number than what we are dealing with and paying for in this country.
It is the chronic diseases, which are life choice related, by and large, that are killing people and sucking up the county's healthcare dollar.
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Originally Posted by Memphis1979
That's the point, it wont be better for your kids. Lots of other programs and entire federal departments to gut, before you have yo destroy Medicare.
Your kids under the Ryan plan would be responsible for 65% of their healthcare costs. You are responsible for about 30%.
Hows that better? While extending tax cuts that haven't helped the economy? By continuing military spending growth that's bloated to the entire worlds levels?
You don't state why you think it'd be better for your kids. Please tell us. You may be uninformed.
You have yet to make any point about tax cuts = revenue increases. You keep parroting the phrase but offer nothing to back it up. Other posters have shown that it's not true and you choose to ignore it and keep repeating the talking point.
It wasn't. I pointed out that the links provided that supposedly show that increases didn't happen actually argued they did. I do not need to counter arguments that support my position.
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Indeed, as evident in the following graph, the evidence suggests that tax cuts do not increase revenues to the government in any meaningful way, but instead increase government deficits.
Don't worry sheep, they won't cut anything. It's all song and dance. Obama, Romney, Ryan, Biden it's all the same. Just 2 of them have an R after there name and 2 have a D. I really can't understand how people can't see that after several years with Obama. It was like having a black George Bush. Obama was having fun flexing his military might, just what the D's were complaining about during the Bush regime. Even Bush was handing out entitlements like the nations credit card has no limit. And I could go on and on.
I believe it's already to late to fix (Our Debt). If my business was as deep in debt as our government is I would just keep having fun trying to pocket all I can before it's all over. Pretty much what our politicians are doing today. They tell people what they want to hear all along laughing while they fill there pockets.
So go on believing all the crap they tell you, I have heard it for so long I just smile and wait for the day when the train runs off the track. Damn Americans are gullible.
Maybe if we all write in my dog for President we might have a chance. At least he is a pure breed and damn good looking.
It wasn't. I pointed out that the links provided that supposedly show that increases didn't happen actually argued they did. I do not need to counter arguments that support my position.
Try this link since you claim you didn't read it the first time. It's from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, not exactly a left-wing website.
Here's an excerpt:
The claim that tax cuts “pay for themselves” — i.e., cause so much economic growth that revenues rise faster than they would have without the tax cut — has been made repeatedly in recent years and is one of the many tax policy issues that is likely to receive renewed attention in light of the upcoming election. As explained briefly below, this claim is false. The evidence shows clearly that tax cuts lose revenue.
One doesn't have to show me graphs, charts, analysis, papers.
If you cut your revenue stream you have less coming in. To balance that you need to cut spending.
Those Bush cuts were done for 10 years to ward off the recession that hit the US back then.
They did what they were enacted to do..let people keep more of their money to spend because we are a consumer nation and our economic stability depends on us spending now, not producing.
The Bush cuts should have expired. They served their purpose which was NOT the 2008 crash.
Not only were they extended but additional cuts happened and spending increased.
Even a fool can see that you can't cut your revenue stream without cutting your spending and not expect to get deeper in debt than you already are.
And we've never thought about how to "fund a war" when our Congress decides to go there.
And now we have a President who goes to war all by himself (Libya) nevermind getting the approval of Congress or the cost.
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