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Old 11-07-2012, 01:11 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
6,176 posts, read 3,498,592 times
Reputation: 3798

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
How did they think he would have ever won when he appealed to only the extreme?
I don't think Romney was a terrible choice. He ran a good campaign. The popular vote was close.

What killed Romney was the GOP primaries where each candidate HAD to sound loonier and loonier in order to appeal to the extreme wackos who've taken over the GOP thanks to Rove & Company. Once a GOP candidate makes it past the primaries, they have to reverse themselves to the middle to appeal to MODERATES. When they do that, they come across as phonies.

And on a slow news day, the media will eagerly cover these wackos because, well, it's there. You can't make this stuff up.

The GOP did it to itself during the primaries and it continues to live in denial. Now they are going to do what they always do: throw Romney under the bus, accuse him of not being conservative enough, blah, blah, blah.

The GOP had Huntsman, but they dismissed him because Huntsman refused to turn himself into a wacko.

Will the GOP ever learn? Heck no.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:18 AM
 
15,723 posts, read 9,609,331 times
Reputation: 6988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speleothem View Post
Yeah, conserving stuff is so old fashioned.
Let's party.
Social Conservatism dominates the 3rd world, and is staunchly opposed by the 1st World. You cannot continue to live in the stone age and expect people to view you positively.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:24 AM
 
15,723 posts, read 9,609,331 times
Reputation: 6988
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
I don't think Romney was a terrible choice. He ran a good campaign. The popular vote was close.

What killed Romney was the GOP primaries where each candidate HAD to sound loonier and loonier in order to appeal to the extreme wackos who've taken over the GOP thanks to Rove & Company. Once a GOP candidate makes it past the primaries, they have to reverse themselves to the middle to appeal to MODERATES. When they do that, they come across as phonies.

And on a slow news day, the media will eagerly cover these wackos because, well, it's there. You can't make this stuff up.

The GOP did it to itself during the primaries and it continues to live in denial. Now they are going to do what they always do: throw Romney under the bus, accuse him of not being conservative enough, blah, blah, blah.

The GOP had Huntsman, but they dismissed him because Huntsman refused to turn himself into a wacko.

Will the GOP ever learn? Heck no.
Isn't this also a huge issue with the American population? Who do Republicans have to convince? The Bible Belt, the Mid-West, etc. People in Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Kansas, Oklahoma, etc. will only vote for crazy right wing theocrats, which as you said forces the primary candidates to be crazier than the next which turns the important voters off in the general election.

So what is the solution? How do we turn the viewpoints of those demographics around so Republicans don't have to act so crazy to win those states?
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:34 AM
 
Location: west mich
5,740 posts, read 5,850,716 times
Reputation: 2115
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
The Bush years killed off the Republican moderates. They either went for Obama or quit voting.

The lesson this election proved is this: This is a new century. The fundamentalist social issues of the 1970's, that allowed the far Christian right their toehold on politics, no longer works. The abortion issue is a sure-fire loser. Creationism is a sure-fire loser. Climate change denial is a sure-fire loser. Subjugation of women is a sure-fire loser. Attacking minorities is a sure-fire loser.

Cling to these failing social issues and continue to watch the conservative base shrivel into a dry husk. Drop them and return to fiscal conservatism and the old spirit of careful compromise, and thrive once again. America needs both conservatives and progressives like a goldfish needs a bowl. Take away one, and dry rot will set in in the other.

I just listened to our President's acceptance speech. He soared like an eagle with every word. I remember a time when a conservative could soar like that, but it's been far too long.

Negativity does not inspire. Anger does not lead effectively. Cynicism does not create unity. Re-learn the value of hope and charity. Re-learn how to respect those who do not agree. Re-learn how to look forward. Come back in 4 years, changed, be bigger and better than you are now, my conservative brothers.

We need you as much as ever, but you need rehab before you return.
All well said and I agree, but we still have dirty tricks, a dearth of real news and information, and money in politics. We must get a handle on these things if we are to retain democracy in our elections.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:51 AM
 
Location: Houston
22,398 posts, read 11,534,751 times
Reputation: 9012
Those who think the Republicans are so bad and extreme must ask themselves why the popular vote was so close.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:57 AM
 
15,723 posts, read 9,609,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Those who think the Republicans are so bad and extreme must ask themselves why the popular vote was so close.
Because enough of the country hates Obama that they were willing to elect an undesirable guy just to shake things up. The removal of Tea party lunatics and strong social ballot measures passing is a strong indicator of the country not putting up with the right wing side of the Republican party.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:58 AM
 
3,273 posts, read 5,413,433 times
Reputation: 1018
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Those who think the Republicans are so bad and extreme must ask themselves why the popular vote was so close.
Think of it this way, look at the unemployment numbers, the overall gridlock in Washington, and etc, the probability of Obama winning seemed pretty small but he did. I'm guessing most of those who voted for Mitt probably didn't like his policies but they just didn't want to see Obama win re-election. I know PLENTY of conservatives/republicans who actually liked Romney but Ryan extremist views took away their vote.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:08 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
6,176 posts, read 3,498,592 times
Reputation: 3798
Quote:
Originally Posted by detwahDJ View Post
The question is, where did they all come from? How did they gain power within the formerly sane Republican Party?
The party was engaged in "bonkers-drift" over recent years.
OMG, I don't want to sound mean but, where have you been? Maybe you're too young. Recent years? Hardly

They have been at it since before 1988. The architect of the "bonkers-drift" was Lee Atwater who was a political consultant for George H. W. Bush Sr. Atwater was a self proclaimed racist redneck from South Carolina and an expert in "code speak".

Read about it here Lee Atwater - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and here The Lee Atwater Story | Boogie Man | FRONTLINE | PBS.

In one of his many dirty tricks, Atwater wanted to spread rumors that Michael Dukakis (Bush Sr's opponent during the 1988 presidential election) had a mental illness which was a complete falsehood. Three years later, Lee Atwater died of brain cancer at the age of 40.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:30 AM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
21,247 posts, read 14,269,308 times
Reputation: 15741
Quote:
Originally Posted by detwahDJ View Post
All well said and I agree, but we still have dirty tricks, a dearth of real news and information, and money in politics. We must get a handle on these things if we are to retain democracy in our elections.
Yes, indeed!
The biggest failure of this election was the waste of all the money that was dumped into those thousands of TV ads.
In the end, the Democratic ground game, improved, sharpened and honed after it's success in 2008, made the difference once more. This is how elections will be won in the future.

And why did that ground game work? Because nothing works better than the oldest tactic in American politics- face to face door knocking and honest conversation conducted with mutual respect.

Making sure folks are registered works. Helping them get to the polls works. Inspiring them works. Listening to them works. Politeness works. Learning their aspirations works. Hope works.

What did we all see here for so long on this forum from the conservatives?

That humans are sheeple. That only a few of us, all conservatives, are the only ones who are hard workers. Only conservatives are willing to take responsibility. Only conservatives are not idiots.

That by calling our President every derogatory thing they could think of was somehow smart and popular. That cynicism and negativity were effective tactics. That, if only some way was found to deny the President's citizenhood, that a reset of 2008 would be possible. That ridicule was always a good thing to use first.

Will tonight's results change anyone here? I doubt it. I admit to stooping to some of the same crap I was handed here in my replies, and I'm just another old white guy, as stuck in the past as many of those who don't agree with me here. We all carry our battle scars like trophies, don't we?

But we don't have to. And I hope we all drop our old junk as much as we can. It never worked well anyway.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:34 AM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
7,249 posts, read 6,647,725 times
Reputation: 3497
Two days ago the wing nuts were all declaring their undying love and support to Mitt Romney and this morning they can't seem to throw him under the bus fast enough and pretend that they never really liked him. Shut up, you're not fooling anyone.
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