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Is The Bern electable? Most likely not. What he's doing is giving voice to the left wing of the party that hasn't been heard from since Jimmy Carter. Clinton and Obama were centrists and the entire national conversation has been pulled to the right by groups like the evangelicals, tea party, and Grover Nordquist crowd. Bern is hoping to drag it back to the left. His ideas are not actionable under the current composition of the legislative branch. But, if he can start a wave with the younger people, something he is by all accounts doing, then up and coming politicians will have to respond to those voices and move to the left also. The right loses voters with each obit, even the legislative gerrymandering that's been going on since 1980 wont save them in the end.
Clinton and Obama were centrists and the entire national conversation has been pulled to the right by groups like the evangelicals, tea party, and Grover Nordquist crowd.
I would put Obama & Clinton completely on the right.
Don't forget the Democratic Leadership Council started by Clinton. They pretty much adopted the establishment GOP platform beyond a few social wedge issues. Obama also added in a touch of race huckstering.
When Bernie starts presenting ideas that both sides wanted (like taking the big banks down a notch (or 3-4)) they will support him.
I live in the real world not the world of future promises without any basis in reality. In the past the combination of a strong trade union movement, small farmers, the Civil Rights organizations, a significant Old Left presence along with artist and the intelligentsia the New Deal coalition was able to push through conservative obstructionism. I don't see such coalitions existing today. Show me such existing movements and we I'll rethink my opinion.
Although it may not be the time for democratic socialism in this country, Sanders at least is calling attention to it. Can he integrate it into the Democratic party here in the U.S.? Probably not. But I don't think he'd have a chance or get the attention if he chose to run as an actual third-party candidate.
Well I definitely be that, as I've argued in the past. Flyby night third party candidates a la Ralph Nader parachuted in for the election and did absolutely nothing to build a sustainable political movement. The progressive fight is within the Democratic Party not outside of it at this point in history.
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Wall Street and billionaires
You know that Wall St. billionaires like any other identifiable group are not monolithic in their political or economic views. You find your allies where you find them regardless of the size of their bank account. Remember, without Engels there would have been no Marx (depending on your view of such things).
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I would much rather see Sanders as president than Trump.
I live in the real world not the world of future promises without any basis in reality. In the past the combination of a strong trade union movement, small farmers, the Civil Rights organizations, a significant Old Left presence along with artist and the intelligentsia the New Deal coalition was able to push through conservative obstructionism. I don't see such coalitions existing today. Show me such existing movements and we I'll rethink my opinion.
Wether on the right or the left, many Americans look at government both democrats and republicans as not working for them. They have seen banks bailed out and they have seen those at the top that know how to control those politicians benefit economically while the middle class has seen good jobs disappear and wages at best become stagnant. It's the reason you see Trump and Sanders getting so much attention from so many that just want somebody not supported by the establishment. It will be an interesting political season to see if the establishment is able to break thru the momentum those two have
I've written on occasion regarding third and alternative parties that voting for "third" party candidates simply isn't enough to bring about reforms be they on the left or on the right. What is needed is a strong political movement that supports such efforts on a grass roots level. Because that is my believe I have little faith in Democrats to build such a movement by 2016 that would be capable of ushering in Sanders proposals. I saw this same failure in 2008 when Democrats elected Barak Obama, sat back and laughed along with Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert satisfied that their job was done, while the Right in the form of the Tea Party went about building a political movement to advance their agenda. So, I'm dying to know where the political movement equivalent to the Tea Party exists on the left, without it Sander's election will realize none of the loftier goals of his campaign.
Feel free to convince me that I am wrong, but not on maybes, perhaps, and could be's.
Haven't you heard? Haven't you been reading? There is no Tea Party. Salon.com giggled it away in 2009.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
The Tea Party and Occupy overlapped in their main goals before the Tea Party was corrupted by the Palin's and Bachmann's.
When Bernie starts presenting ideas that both sides wanted (like taking the big banks down a notch (or 3-4)) they will support him.
Like pknopp says. Walter Jones, Justin Amash, Mia Love, Rand Paul, Mike Lee, David Brat, Louie Gohmert, Jason Chaffetz, Trey Gowdy,.... All figments of pknopp's imagination.
That's right--the Tea Party is really about Equality and anti-capitalism and Zeitgeist and living in styrofoam igloo towers pooped out of machines by computers that run the planet, and socialism, and dogs, and tents, and occupying privately owned public spaces.
Last edited by mm4; 02-09-2016 at 05:56 PM..
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