Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
To defend Trump supporters as anything but "stupid" and "brainwashed" is a glaring of example of "taking the middle-ism" in an effort to posture one's self as being more open-minded than others who've got them correctly pegged as exactly what they are.
Hardly. Again, you're painting with broad brush strokes.
I made it clear I'm a Clinton supporter. Not because I'm an "anybody but Trump" voter, but because she's far and away the more qualified candidate. Trump's rhetoric is deplorable and downright dangerous. He's far and away the worst major party nominee in my lifetime. He's made a habit of praying on the fear and paranoia among a very "stupid" segment of the population. But there are plenty of educated, otherwise reasonable and decent people who support him for a variety of reasons beyond the common ones often associated with Trump supporters (i.e. racist, xenophobic, etc.). One of the more common examples is that many Christians feel that some of the items in the democratic agenda (particularly with regard to same-sex marriage and abortion) are counter to their own beliefs and Trump, while morally corrupt himself, is the best vehicle for moving against that agenda.
Now, I happen to be an atheist and disagree emphatically with that stance. I believe that a woman's right to choose is her own, and I vehemently support same-sex marriage. But I understand how a Christian could consider voting for Clinton and what her party represents to be an affront to their deeply held religious beliefs, even if Trump the individual is a moral black (orange?) hole. Again, I disagree with that stance (religion should be entirely separate from Government), I also feel that a vote for Trump is displays a certain level of disregard for Americans (i.e. anyone who isn't an American born white guy) who have legitimate reason to fear the guy's fear mongering, hateful ideology. Lots of people who are casting votes for Trump are good people even if you and I feel like they're a little misguided this election season.
The issue with your stance is that you're doing exactly the type of thing that you hate about the other side. You're making Trump supporters "others" and that type categorization and divisiveness is what's so dangerous about Trump's rhetoric. It's no better when it comes from the left. My mind is blown just as much as yours is not only by Trump's rise, but also by the amount of people who feed into his nonsense. But that certainly isn't representative of everyone who will be voting for him. Be better than that.
The issue with your stance is that you're doing exactly the type of thing that you hate about the other side. You're making Trump supporters "others" and that type categorization and divisiveness is what's so dangerous about Trump's rhetoric. It's no better when it comes from the left. My mind is blown just as much as yours is not only by Trump's rise, but also by the amount of people who feed into his nonsense. But that certainly isn't representative of everyone who will be voting for him. Be better than that.
It's not exactly the type of thing I hate about the other side. And I think you're wrong in assuming that this is a Left vs. Right struggle anyway as movement conservatives have been against Trump from the very beginning (see any article from the National Review). I generally have a lot of respect for conservatives with differing views on trade, energy policy, and monetary policy, but I have no respect for a person who is willing to hand power to an autocrat in the making.
This election isn't really about public policy. The 2012 election was more or less a war of ideas (and identity to a degree as well). This election is more about democratic forces vs anti-democratic ones. And if you find that statement to be hyperbolic, then I suggest you read the columns of essentially every respected conservative intellectual in the United States (hint: few, if any, support Trump). Trump voters are simply enablers.
It's not exactly the type of thing I hate about the other side. And I think you're wrong in assuming that this is a Left vs. Right struggle anyway as movement conservatives have been against Trump from the very beginning (see any article from the National Review). I generally have a lot of respect for conservatives with differing views on trade, energy policy, and monetary policy, but I have no respect for a person who is willing to hand power to an autocrat in the making.
This election isn't really about public policy. The 2012 election was more or less a war of ideas (and identity to a degree as well). This election is more about democratic forces vs anti-democratic ones. And if you find that statement to be hyperbolic, then I suggest you read the columns of essentially every respected conservative intellectual in the United States (hint: few, if any, support Trump). Trump voters are simply enablers.
I agree with you on all of this. But it's different than what you said here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
To defend Trump supporters as anything but "stupid" and "brainwashed" is a glaring of example of "taking the middle-ism" in an effort to posture one's self as being more open-minded than others who've got them correctly pegged as exactly what they are.
I think Trump voters are enablers. I think he is dangerous for all of the reasons that have been hashed out repeatedly. But I don't think being a Trump supporter inherently makes someone "stupid" or even "brainwashed." I think there are a lot of otherwise intelligent, decent people voting for Trump who simply don't see him as the threat that you, I and (hopefully) many others do. There's a big difference and it's important to recognize it if there's any home to reverse the rift.
I think Trump voters are enablers. I think he is dangerous for all of the reasons that have been hashed out repeatedly. But I don't think being a Trump supporter inherently makes someone "stupid" or even "brainwashed." I think there are a lot of otherwise intelligent, decent people voting for Trump who simply don't see him as the threat that you, I and (hopefully) many others do. There's a big difference and it's important to recognize it if there's any home to reverse the rift.
If you don't see him as a threat, then I consider you stupid. I guess that's the difference between us.
Last edited by BajanYankee; 10-24-2016 at 02:27 PM..
If you don't see him as a threat, then I consider you stupid. I guess that's the difference between us.
"If you don't believe what I believe, you're stupid."
How enlightened of you.
He is a threat. But the lack of ability to understand (or attempt to understand) why some of his supporters may not feel he is a threat (or at least downplay the risks) is pretty simplistic too.
"If you don't believe what I believe, you're stupid."
How enlightened of you.
He is a threat. But the lack of ability to understand (or attempt to understand) why some of his supporters may not feel he is a threat (or at least downplay the risks) is pretty simplistic too.
No, I understand the reason why some supporters feel he is not a threat. Some, for example, say that he can only do so much because his exercise of executive power will be reigned in by the other branches of government. Others feel that he's mostly bluster and won't see through to the imprisonment of political enemies, the ban on Muslims, and other acts that the judiciary would undoubtedly strike down as unconstitutional. Some people feel that the risks of elevating a potential despot to power are far outweighed by the need to appoint conservatives to the bench.
I think all of these lines of reasoning are stupid. Donald Trump has given us a strong basis to believe that he is exactly the type of President who would ignore judicial decrees. As Andrew Jackson famously said, "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it." That's exactly who Trump is and anybody who says otherwise is kidding themselves. It is not outside of the realm of imagination for Attorney General Giuliani to order the arrest of Paul Ryan. That's the type of thing that can happen when you make the biggest narcissist in American history the most powerful man in the world.
This, of course, assumes that most of his supporters value democracy. That's probably not a valid assumption.
He is a threat. But the lack of ability to understand (or attempt to understand) why some of his supporters may not feel he is a threat (or at least downplay the risks) is pretty simplistic too.
Ultimately, I guess it comes down to whether or not putting someone in power who sees no problem using nuclear weapons because he checks off other boxes on your policy wishlist can be viewed as a decision that is anything other than crazy. It seems like you are saying that Trump is objectively a threat in this regard but that there are nonetheless rational, clear-headed reasons for supporting him compared to some third-party candidate.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
