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Old 09-08-2008, 09:17 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 1,770,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor92 View Post
This election is a choice between Obama and his plan, and McCain and his plan.
Agreed, and the 'change' that Obama is proposing does require examination. However, McCain has started running on 'change' also and I'm trying to figure out what that means. Change from the current administration? I hope that's what it means, but I don't seen enough differences to support that - that's why this thread.
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:18 PM
 
655 posts, read 1,297,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rightofcenter View Post
I honestly don't know how he will govern. If he wants a second term he will have to continue to pander to the base. The only hope that I have that he will return to the McCain of the past is if he thinks once he is in office he can do what he believes and that the American people will appreciate that enough to re-elect him.
Very good points. I also hope the same. Politics is a very interesting game. If McCain had played to the base any less, there's a very good chance he would not have been nominated by the party. He still only won because Romney and Huckabee split the true base of the GOP.

If he plays to the base too much, then he loses all his moderate support with a wildly unpopular president. It is a very interesting game of politics that must be played. Perhaps I am giving him too much credit based on his bipartisan record and I'm too hopeful that I've finally found a bipartisan presidential candidate. But then again, there are still signs, such as his acceptance speech that he has serious problems with the way Bush has governed.
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,400 posts, read 15,294,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rightofcenter View Post
But do you truly believe that this is one of his core principles? I have followed him for years and I rarely recall him ever discussing education.
Of course. He is a major supporter of school vouchers, and believes that the education process isn't sufficiently flexible to meet the needs of many students who would benefit from some alternative learning processes.

He specifically states that he would provide some funding for efforts to create courses that could be learned via the internet. This doesn't mean exclusively via computer, but a combination of classroom and computer learning. He gets this from his own lack of really liking classroom structure when he was a student.

I completely agree with him.
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:22 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 1,770,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
He is a major supporter of school vouchers
Really? I haven't seen any evidence of this. Like I said I haven't seen much from him in the way of education over the years, maybe I've been missing it? Has he ever sponsored any education bills that you know of?
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:25 PM
 
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There is a lot of noise out there and the real differences between the 2 are not coming up clear. I hope that the presidential debates are held in a meaningful format that allows for a discussion beyond 1 minute answers and allows for a little give-and-take. I also hope people are not watching Brittany (or her variant) during those debates. We all have too much to lose.
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:26 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 1,770,333 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor92 View Post
Very good points. I also hope the same. Politics is a very interesting game. If McCain had played to the base any less, there's a very good chance he would not have been nominated by the party. He still only won because Romney and Huckabee split the true base of the GOP.

If he plays to the base too much, then he loses all his moderate support with a wildly unpopular president. It is a very interesting game of politics that must be played. Perhaps I am giving him too much credit based on his bipartisan record and I'm too hopeful that I've finally found a bipartisan presidential candidate. But then again, there are still signs, such as his acceptance speech that he has serious problems with the way Bush has governed.
Which leaves us (in my mind at least) with two candidates that I am unsure of how they will govern. I have to admit though that this is the first election that I can remember where I honestly don't feel like I am choosing between two evils. Even though McCain has been around forever, his pick of Palin has solidified in my mind that I am picking between two unknowns.
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:27 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 1,770,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calmdude View Post
There is a lot of noise out there and the real differences between the 2 are not coming up clear. I hope that the presidential debates are held in a meaningful format that allows for a discussion beyond 1 minute answers and allows for a little give-and-take. I also hope people are not watching Brittany (or her variant) during those debates. We all have too much to lose.
Amen to that!!
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,400 posts, read 15,294,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rightofcenter View Post
Really? I haven't seen any evidence of this. Like I said I haven't seen much from him in the way of education over the years, maybe I've been missing it? Has he ever sponsored any education bills that you know of?
Yes, you haven't been paying attention to McCain concerning education:

Republican Debate at Dartmouth College Oct 29, 1999:

We have to have choice and competition in our schools in order to improve our school system, including charter schools, including a test voucher program that would be paid for with ethanol subsidies and with sugar subsidies. And in order to make that system work, the test voucher program throughout America, we have to have good teachers, and I would argue that merit pay, rewards for good teachers and helping bad teachers find another line of work is the way we must go about it.



2001 Main Street Partnership Action Agenda for Education 01-RMSP4 on Jul 2, 2001

Provide flexibility in exchange for increased accountability.

Encourage more states to take advantaged of the Education-Flexibility waiver to better align federal programs with state and local priorities.

Currently, 15 states have Ed-Flex authority and, according to GAO reports, the waiver authority promotes a climate that encourages state and local educators to explore new approaches to education. Ultimately, the states must make the decision to apply for the waiver, but education leaders must encourage states and schools to be innovative in their approach to education improvement.

Enact new legislation to give states the option to combine education programs and funding in exchange for demonstrated improvements in student achievement at all levels

In exchange for new flexibility, a participating state would have to show how it would combine and use funds to advance education priorities, improve student achievement and narrow the learning gap. If, after three years, the state has failed to meet its own requirements, the flexibility authority would be terminated and administrative funds would be withheld.



John McCain on School Choice
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Austin TX
1,565 posts, read 2,851,398 times
Reputation: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by rightofcenter View Post
This is a serious question because I really don't see any policy differences from what McCain is proposing compared to what Bush has been doing. Are there any?

Well they run on the same platform...so no not really!
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:45 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 1,770,333 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
Yes, you haven't been paying attention to McCain concerning education:

Republican Debate at Dartmouth College Oct 29, 1999:

We have to have choice and competition in our schools in order to improve our school system, including charter schools, including a test voucher program that would be paid for with ethanol subsidies and with sugar subsidies. And in order to make that system work, the test voucher program throughout America, we have to have good teachers, and I would argue that merit pay, rewards for good teachers and helping bad teachers find another line of work is the way we must go about it.


2001 Main Street Partnership Action Agenda for Education 01-RMSP4 on Jul 2, 2001

Provide flexibility in exchange for increased accountability.

Encourage more states to take advantaged of the Education-Flexibility waiver to better align federal programs with state and local priorities.

Currently, 15 states have Ed-Flex authority and, according to GAO reports, the waiver authority promotes a climate that encourages state and local educators to explore new approaches to education. Ultimately, the states must make the decision to apply for the waiver, but education leaders must encourage states and schools to be innovative in their approach to education improvement.

Enact new legislation to give states the option to combine education programs and funding in exchange for demonstrated improvements in student achievement at all levels

In exchange for new flexibility, a participating state would have to show how it would combine and use funds to advance education priorities, improve student achievement and narrow the learning gap. If, after three years, the state has failed to meet its own requirements, the flexibility authority would be terminated and administrative funds would be withheld.


John McCain on School Choice
I was questioning the 'strong supporter of vouchers' assertion. I don't consider 'test voucher programs' and and a "Nationwide test of school vouchers" to be a strong supporter.

And linking vouchers to ethanol subsidies and sugar subsidies totally blows my mind.
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