Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And of course I don't believe in any "internal power struggle" as a cause for this latest murder.
There is no "internal power struggle" in DNR, and both Motorolla and Givi were strictly soldiers, not politicians in any way. Very good and successful commanders on the battlefield at that, so their military success was precisely what "Ukrainian patriots" couldn't take any longer, including the last events in Avdeevka, where Givi was in charge of commandment yet again.
While I liked the persona of "Givi" I had my misgivings about him and his cohorts like Motorola. War is not a good place to get your heroes from. Look at John McCain, a murderous coward of the worst kind. Individuals like Motorola and Givi are essentially warlords, we don't need them in the long run. You always find that type where the trouble is and they're usually the cause of it.
I am not so sure about a power struggle but there could be one going on. The situation is right for it and that's what those seeking power do. I think the Kiev junta could be the issue just as likely. The international community (NATO) could very well be involved too and even the Russians but I doubt it. I don't have enough info to really put it down in concrete. Churchills words about Russian politics. "It's like 2 dogs fighting under a rug. You don't know who won until of them comes out with a bone in his mouth".
I lean towards the Kiev junta with the help of the west doing it. They can't do diddly militarily so they try other ways. Just like the powers during WWI. I could be wrong too.
I would LIKE to believe this was a Ukrainian operation, but I really don't think it was. Indeed, it would be more satisfying knowing that's how this animal was put down. But in reality, it seems most likely that it's an internal power struggle among Russian terrorists. That's what the preponderance of evidence suggests. Apparently, he did not follow the Kremlin's orders to their satisfaction. So this is what happens. This has happened to quite a few other terrorists as well.
Any sources? Edited because what I said was unnecessary and frankly, stupid. Anyway what do you have Snj? Lets figure this out. I think it was the Ukraine with the help of the west or a power struggle in the DNR, probability in that order.
While I liked the persona of "Givi" I had my misgivings about him and his cohorts like Motorola. War is not a good place to get your heroes from. Look at John McCain, a murderous coward of the worst kind. Individuals like Motorola and Givi are essentially warlords, we don't need them in the long run. You always find that type where the trouble is and they're usually the cause of it.
Who "we" Scrat? Russians indeed need their war heroes in the long run.
See, it's a deep-seated "sense of justice" that governs the Russians from within, and it's this sentiment that their authorities ( to whom an average Russian usually never ascribes this "sense of justice") tap in from time to time, in most difficult times like for example during the WWII, or Napoleonic war of 1812. Russian war heroes represent the strength, sense of loyalty and courage that Russians posses in the face of mortal danger. There were legendary civil war heroes like Chapaev and Shсhors ( who happened to be a Ukrainian,) there were Vasilisa Kozhina and Denis Davydov during the 1812 war, there were Karbyshev and Kosmodemyanskaya along with numerous others during the WWII. Each and every of these heroes symbolized that eternal "sense of justice" for Russians, and in their folk traditions they write songs, they write poems devoted to these people. Givi and Motorolla came along as such latest examples. Now ask yourself what war exactly did senator McCain participated in, that made him a "war hero?"
Why, do you think I ask Ukrainians here for nothing to pause and THINK for a moment, why the latest events didn't bring forth any heroes among them, the likes of Givi and Motorolla?
Quote:
I am not so sure about a power struggle but there could be one going on. The situation is right for it and that's what those seeking power do. I think the Kiev junta could be the issue just as likely. The international community (NATO) could very well be involved too and even the Russians but I doubt it. I don't have enough info to really put it down in concrete.
There was and probably still IS in LNR. That place seems to attract a great deal of far-left wingers, who have tendency to start acting as independent force, which I think doesn't sit well with Kremlin. Now DNR is a different story; they are dutifully towing the Kremlin's line from what I know, to a big detriment of many Russians and locals alike.
Quote:
Churchills words about Russian politics. "It's like 2 dogs fighting under a rug. You don't know who won until of them comes out with a bone in his mouth".
I'm sure there is a friction going on between couple of fractions in the circles close to Putin, but I don't think it's a "fighting under the rug" at this point to be honest.
Here is yet another opinion that this is NOT the "internal power struggle" - "Texas" clearly doesn't believe in this version, that Ukrainians are trying to push now.
Ukrainians are not heroes, because they are punishers. And they know it. The version of the internal struggle for power is simply an attempt to look good for a Western sponsors. Western sponsors may not be involved in terrorist attacks. Deaths Motorola and Givi is terrorist attacks. When the West supports Poroshenko, the West supports the terrorist attacks. Of course, the West can not accept it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Russians indeed need their war heroes in the long run. 
