Russia. All that concerns Russia.Аnswers questions citizen of Russia. (life, places)
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How do you know the yards are tiny? Again, I think you're comparing apples to oranges. Dachas have sizeable back yards, because the purpose of them is to provide space for people to grow food: often it's a potato patch, but also other veggies are grown.
You also have photos of urban houses, some of which are crowded together, like in San Francisco and in European cities (but the San Fran ones have back yards, idk about in Europe), then in the latest group of photos, you show urban houses with bigger yards all around, like in the US. Those usually aren't dachas; they're American-style private year-round residences.
The other thing is that you're comparing old Soviet-era dacha districts with new neighborhoods (post 1991, or post 2000, mostly) in expanding cities, and you're asking: "Why aren't the old ones with wooden houses like these new ones?" Times have changed, and people who can afford it have been building American-style homes. In the 90's, starting, I think, under Gorbachev actually, some people moved out of city apartments and bought old dachas, and did their best to fix them up so they'd be habitable year 'round. This was the only option for the average worker to have a private home, and it started to become a trend in that era. No one had the money for those American-style houses you show, back then, other than big-wigs, oligarchs, so they were very rare. And the few that were being built were outside of town, so there was no utility hookup. They had to pay to have utilities extended out there. Now, new districts are being built in some cities, so utility service is a planned part of the new growth.
I'm starting to wonder if maybe some of the people building those American-style houses aren't people working for Western companies remotely: scientists and techies contracting with the West.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 04-10-2017 at 06:33 PM..
No, it's not a cultural thing. You can see that the architects' designs for new apartment complexes include nice landscaping, but when it comes to finishing out that part of the development, the State is too cheap to pay for that.
That's true. The state is cutting each and every expense that might make the lives of people more enjoyable. (Unless we are talking about Moscow, and what current mayor is doing there, what he is all about.)
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No, it's not a cultural thing. The people I know with dachas, whether they're just for weekend use or for year-round living, keep the grounds tidy. Not fanatically so, like an English garden, or whatever, but they keep things looking respectable.
But Scrat is correct a bit too in this respect - that it's a cultural thing. I think that Russian mind overall ( particularly when it comes to men) is in the perpetual state of uncertainty, so there is some sense of incompleteness, the open-endedness of it, if I can put it this way. And its transcends into everything around, the landscapes/grounds around the houses including.
Heat is piped from a central source to businesses and apt. blocks, schools, etc. See this page on "District heating" on Wiki, and scroll down for the paragraph on Russia:
I'm not understanding what you're calling "neglected". Some of the photos you call "dacha" districts are neat and tidy. Others are a little unkempt, but that's partly because they're country houses, not city neighborhoods. Also, owners can't just make a run to Home Depot to get a weed whacker and pruning shears and saws. You can't even do as in Latin America, and buy an all-purpose machete, for cutting the grass, trimming branches, and other chores, because it would be considered a weapon, and isn't allowed.
There was one photo that showed some trash bags and bits of construction wood, or something; it looked like maybe someone was working on their house, and left the trash outside to haul away later, or whatever.
To me, it doesn't make sense to compare city centers, which have the benefit of city services to clean the streets and pick up trash, to dacha districts. It's like comparing apples to artichokes.
But Scrat is correct a bit too in this respect - that it's a cultural thing. I think that Russian mind overall ( particularly when it comes to men) is in the perpetual state of uncertainty, so there is some sense of incompleteness, the open-endedness of it, if I can put it this way. And its transcends into everything around, the landscapes/grounds around the houses including.
I can't relate to that. I'm going to suggest, then, that it could be a class difference. Because I heard plenty about keeping a nice dvor in the old days, but if you look at the villages, what you could call the peasant houses always have falling-down fences. (This is in sharp contrast to villages in other parts of E Europe.)
On the other hand, I've seen dachas that are very nicely-kept, with improvements added such as a workshop or art studio, and everything well-maintained, and they belong only to what we might call middle-class types; college-educated people of one sort or another (4-year degree, not graduate-level education).
I can't relate to that. I'm going to suggest, then, that it could be a class difference. Because I heard plenty about keeping a nice dvor in the old days, but if you look at the villages, what you could call the peasant houses always have falling-down fences. (This is in sharp contrast to villages in other parts of E Europe.)
I'd say that in Russia anything and everything is about "class" - always was and probably always will be, but there is something else about that "sense of incompleteness" that transcends to more than just "class" I think.
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On the other hand, I've seen dachas that are very nicely-kept, with improvements added such as a workshop or art studio, and everything well-maintained, and they belong only to what we might call middle-class types; college-educated people of one sort or another (4-year degree, not graduate-level education).
Well these are usually people with money and "connections" - not just 4-year degree...
I know there are some rich communities, but honestly it shouldn't be so hard to find a nice neighborhood.
Again, some of those aren't comparable. The problem is that you're just picking photos off the internet without understanding what it is you're looking at. So in the non-Russia batch, those are city (or town) neighborhoods. (And btw, they're middle-class ones, not slummy ones, and we all know that Latin America has poor neighborhoods.) The first couple of photos in the Russia batch are old dacha neighborhoods, either on the outskirts of cities, or formerly on the outskirts, but now surrounded by urban growth, so they may be islands of old country houses within city limits.
But with the Sochi photo, I see what you mean; the planter strip in front of the houses is overgrown. Perhaps there's not an ethic of doing one's share to maintain the appearance of the neighborhood. Those planter strips are outside the parameter of the homes, so the residents may think it's not their land, or not their responsibility. If it's outside the parcel they paid for, it may, indeed, not be their responsibility. Maybe the city sends someone through once/month to trim those little patches.
Also, I noticed in photos of "gardens" surrounding institutions of various sorts in small towns in Sweden, that the "gardens" or "parks" are all overgrown, just like in Russia! Apparently there is no budget in the research institute or the clinic to pay for a yard keeper, even in parts of Scandinavia. Switzerland it's not, where everything is kept fanatically tidy to perfectionist standards.
So I wouldn't say this is part of a Slavic mentality, or a Russian mentality. There's more to it.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 04-10-2017 at 07:18 PM..
I'd say that in Russia anything and everything is about "class" - always was and probably always will be, but there is something else about that "sense of incompleteness" that transcends to more than just "class" I think.
What I'm saying is whatever this sense of incompleteness or unpredictability is that you're referring to wouldn't stop some people from keeping a clean and tidy place, including the yard. There was a sense of propriety involved, for some people. Which goes to show the untended yards aren't categorically due to a "Russian mentality". Society is more complex than that. Some of it's just plain laziness, a lack of fastidiousness, and apathy on the part of lower classes.
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Originally Posted by erasure;
Well these are usually people with money and "connections" - not just 4-year degree...
Definitely it was necessary to have some sort of connections to get the building supplies, but one could arrange for logs to be hauled on the lumber trucks from one's village to the city. The people I'm thinking of aren't the types to have high-level connections or a lot of money. It's amazing what ordinary people go through to build a house. It's like the saying goes: " It's better to have 100 friends than 100 rubles." Or an extended family whose members one can depend on.
Again, some of those aren't comparable. The problem is that you're just picking photos off the internet without understanding what it is you're looking at. So in the non-Russia batch, those are city (or town) neighborhoods. (And btw, they're middle-class ones, not slummy ones, and we all know that Latin America has poor neighborhoods.) The first couple of photos in the Russia batch are old dacha neighborhoods, either on the outskirts of cities, or formerly on the outskirts, but now surrounded by urban growth, so they may be islands of old country houses within city limits.
But with the Sochi photo, I see what you mean; the planter strip in front of the houses is overgrown. But again--how would they keep that trimmed? Where is the garden supply store to buy hoses, grass clippers or weed-whacker, or a small push mower? Russians have never seen a push mower or heard of a weed-whacker. OK, I guess they could use a scythe or sickle, that would be the typical thing. Scythes are still used, not only in Russia and Eastern Europe, but in Sweden as well, for cutting grass.
Also, I noticed in photos of "gardens" surrounding institutions of various sorts in small towns in Sweden, that the "gardens" or "parks" are all overgrown, just like in Russia! Apparently there is no budget in the research institute or the clinic to pay for a yard keeper, even in parts of Scandinavia. Switzerland it's not, where everything is kept fanatically tidy to perfectionist standards.
So I wouldn't say this is part of a Slavic mentality, or a Russian mentality. There's more to it.
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