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Old 10-31-2017, 06:33 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,534,034 times
Reputation: 10037

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
It doesn't matter what the Russian general population thinks as they are told what to think.
Who told you so?
Ukrainian propaganda machine?


Quote:
And for about 6 years now they have been told that the West is their enemy, not their corrupt government.
Why only 6 years?
Russians consider the West to be an enemy since Yeltsin's times.
That's why they prefer to put up with their current corrupt government (i.e Putin,) but to avoid further *friendship* with the West ( US in particular.) As the proverb has it - " who needs enemies with friends like this?"
Someone was lamenting here recently that "Russians don't understand Ukrainians."
Obviously, Ukrainians understand Russians ( and their experience and wisdom) even less.
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Old 10-31-2017, 06:43 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,534,034 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
It wasn't a Pandora's box, it was to prevent another genocide, especially when Rwanda was only a few years before, and the West was blamed for doing nothing.

And teaching the Serbs and Milosevic a lesson was an additional bonus.
So NATO was "teaching Milosevic a lesson," while this very Milosevic was exonerated of his "war crimes?"
How peculiar.

( You might want to read this older article in Guardian on a subject as well)

"Slobodan Milosevic was posthumously exonerated on Monday when the international court of justice ruled that Serbia was not responsible for the 1995 massacre at Srebrenica. The former president of Serbia had always argued that neither Yugoslavia nor Serbia had command of the Bosnian Serb army, and this has now been upheld by the world court in The Hague. By implication, Serbia cannot be held responsible for any other war crimes attributed to the Bosnian Serbs."

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...crimes.balkans
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:49 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,494,204 times
Reputation: 5031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
DKM, United States destroyed Yugoslavia and changed the borders of Europe for the first time since the WWII by force. United States destroyed Iraq, Hussein was hanged in a loop. United States destroyed Libya, Kadaffi was beaten with sticks. North Korea understands this and is trying to create nuclear weapons in a short time. Because otherwise they are waiting for the same result. A corrupt government is Russia's problem. The stupidity of United States is problem of the whole world.
None if those countries have been destroyed. I can assure you they are still standing. Why blame the US for Gaddafi when it was France and the UK that played the biggest role.
The borders of Europe had already changed with the unification of Germany, dissolution of the SU, Tchekoslovakia, Yugoslavia, which all happened years before NATO involvement.

What does North Korea understand? It is run by a despotic regime that restricts the movement of its populations do uses paranoia to ensure that the government stays in power. Even countries that don’t align with the West still stay away from NK.
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Russia
2,216 posts, read 1,021,239 times
Reputation: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Crimea was given to the Ukrainian SSR by Khrushchev. I see that you have forgot that. And why do you don't care about the Budapest agreement - where Ukraine gave away its nuclear weapons and in exchange Russia promised to respect Ukraine's borders?

And I care about the opinion of the indigenous population - the Crimean Tatars.
What's the difference who and how presented? The fact remains. And Yes, anything that Ukraine has violated the Memorandum taking the position of Pro-Western (to long to write).In addition, the Crimea at the time of accession,was not Ukraine.
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Russia
2,216 posts, read 1,021,239 times
Reputation: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
It is amazing that even now, Russians are trying to pin the Balkan war on NATO when it was NATO that finally got involved to solve it not to mention saved 100's of thousands of lives. It's Russia's intervention in the Balkans that caused WW1 and again enabled the Serbs to massacre so many people in the 90s. Be part of the solution? Not Russia's style then or now. Their final remaining client is Serbia, funny how every other Yugoslave state joined or wants to join NATO now. Oh but Kosovo! Wah wah, that's the Russia's fault for not preventing the massacres.

Russians ignore the root cause of conflicts they help create. They don't want to admit that the Ukrainian revolution was caused by their interference in Ukraine and don't want to admit that Kosovo was split off because we finally had to stop Serbs from ethnically cleansing it.
The fact of the matter is not ignored and,in particular, is one of the reasons why get all sorts of accusations. One of the causes of conflict in the photo..





Military equipment to the East were sent on the second day after the Maidan,but aggressive Russia,Yes.
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Old 11-01-2017, 01:40 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,230,293 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
It wasn't a Pandora's box.
Maybe it was not for NATO, but it was for rest of the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
And teaching the Serbs and Milosevic a lesson was an additional bonus.
Russia, China, North Korea also teach this lesson. No laws, no rules, only missiles can protect you.
And missiles must be serious. Not like in Iraq or Libya. It must be large guns, missiles and rockets.
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Old 11-01-2017, 02:53 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,230,293 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
None if those countries have been destroyed. I can assure you they are still standing.
Ok, this is correct remark. Not countries, but independent governments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Why blame the US for Gaddafi when it was France and the UK that played the biggest role.
This is NATO's military operation, as I understand it. United States is the leader of NATO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
The borders of Europe had already changed with the unification of Germany, dissolution of the SU, Tchekoslovakia
It was peaceful changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Yugoslavia, which all happened years before NATO involvement.
NATO attacked an independent country. It was mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
What does North Korea understand?
What only weapons can protect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
It is run by a despotic regime that restricts the movement of its populations do uses paranoia to ensure that the government stays in power. Even countries that don’t align with the West still stay away from NK.
China and Russia have normal relationship with NK.
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:48 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,799,193 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
So NATO was "teaching Milosevic a lesson," while this very Milosevic was exonerated of his "war crimes?"
How peculiar.
Well, after the bombing Milosevic was ousted by the Serbians, and in 2011 the Serbian public broadcaster issued an apology for their propaganda during the Milosevic era.

That was the lesson.
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:06 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,854,455 times
Reputation: 6690
He wasn't exonerated for war crimes. He was only found not well connected to Karadzic's war crimes in Bosnia. Russians twisting the truth as usual. Milosevic was responsible for the war crimes in Kosovo and nobody has cleared him of that (except probably Russian "news").
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:09 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,854,455 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post

China and Russia have normal relationship with NK.
You made his point. Bravo!
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