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Old 11-25-2018, 08:11 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,443,411 times
Reputation: 9092

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Well at least they have some production even though those who can afford a car don't buy them if they can avoid it. I can see why they're doing it. You need to give the industry a fighting chance. Belarus makes no domestic cars but they make some very good heavy equipment like the BelAZ 75710 and a lot of busses and tractors of all types.

Ukraines KRAZ is one hell of a heavy duty truck. Rugged, simple, reliable and all but indestructable. The one thing that plagues all of them (including Russian heavy equipment) is fuel economy. It sucks.
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Old 11-25-2018, 08:12 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,443,411 times
Reputation: 9092
The Volkosovs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BelAZ_75710
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Old 11-26-2018, 01:21 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,234,324 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Pretty f'ed up of Russia to take such actions. The area is a zone for them to transit, even if advanced notice was not given, you still do not take such actions, especially the ramming which is totally unacceptable.

Ukrainian ships invaded the territorial waters of Russia and were captured. The ramming was the only right way to stop them.
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:42 AM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,572,686 times
Reputation: 11136
The story is that the Ukrainian boats may have turned back toward the passage when they were being escorted by the Russian navy.

Poroshenko's martial law order is up for vote after the incident staged by Poroshenko regime

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...pdate-joy1o8eo

The lead political figure in this highly democratic state (sarcasm) appears to be trying to cancel the elections which he's almost certain to lose. If these democratic elections were held, the favorite to win is another oligarch.

Last edited by lchoro; 11-26-2018 at 08:59 AM..
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:59 AM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,818,113 times
Reputation: 25191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
Ukrainian ships invaded the territorial waters of Russia and were captured. The ramming was the only right way to stop them.
So far Russia has stated they did not provide advance notice, which is a technicality, not an aggression. Of course that creates the question how would Russia be treated if the roles were reversed or in a similar situation. We already seen a Russian jet shot down over what amounts to a trivial border crossing.

As for martial law, I suspect due to recent events, they are scared of a coup. Martial law will assist in cracking down more on internal dissent, political opponents, in an effort to prevent a coup.

Ukraine stated they sent their whole navy to sea, lol, what navy.
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Old 11-26-2018, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,929,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
Ukrainian ships invaded the territorial waters of Russia and were captured. The ramming was the only right way to stop them.
How else are they supposed to reach the Azov Sea? Also Ukraine doesn’t recognize Crimea as Russian territory, so if Ukraine asked permission it would essentially mean that Ukraine recognizes Russia’s authority over Crimea. I also think the Kerch Strait should be treated similar to the Bosphorus. That being said I’m aware that Russia is worried that Ukraine might want to destroy the bridge that was just recently completed, but I still think the Russian Navy could’ve escorted the ships through the strait.
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Old 11-26-2018, 12:47 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,572,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
How else are they supposed to reach the Azov Sea? Also Ukraine doesn’t recognize Crimea as Russian territory, so if Ukraine asked permission it would essentially mean that Ukraine recognizes Russia’s authority over Crimea. I also think the Kerch Strait should be treated similar to the Bosphorus. That being said I’m aware that Russia is worried that Ukraine might want to destroy the bridge that was just recently completed, but I still think the Russian Navy could’ve escorted the ships through the strait.
There's an international agreement governing the transit of foreign ships through the Bosphorus. Negotiating an agreement opens up another problem for Ukraine since they cede sovereignty to the other side. Not taking a side, but both sides are trying to avoid triggering legalities that benefit the other side.
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Old 11-26-2018, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,234,324 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
How else are they supposed to reach the Azov Sea?
Passage through the strait is regulated by Russia, since the bridge belongs to it. Ukraine's ships were to apply for a passage and follow directions like all other ships. But the ships did not wait for permission to pass and did not fulfill requirements of ships of border guards (Russian ships were not ships of the Black Sea fleet, it was ships of the coast guard of the Federal Security Service).


+
www.fsb.ru/fsb/press/message/single.htm%21id%3D10438315%40fsbMessage.html

Last edited by Maksim_Frolov; 11-26-2018 at 01:14 PM..
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Old 11-26-2018, 02:11 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
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I would feel sorry for these people and their whole situation, had they now being killing the civilians in Donbass with impunity.
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Old 11-26-2018, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Europe
4,692 posts, read 1,165,924 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
Ukrainian ships invaded the territorial waters of Russia and were captured. The ramming was the only right way to stop them.
Its neutral waters, and juridiction de jure ukrainian.
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