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Old 11-01-2011, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Spain
190 posts, read 706,899 times
Reputation: 204

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
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There were no exiles during the 60's.
All of them could return, even those with blood crimes (amnesty of 1962).
Not true, there was moderate criticism and a lot of press and humour.
It was different, of course, you had to read between lines.
The main problem here was religion.
In the 60 still had hundreds of thousands of political exiles, i guess they could return with the mouth closed In fact, most political exiles never returned Manolón.
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Old 11-01-2011, 05:16 PM
 
2,226 posts, read 5,110,059 times
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Most did return. A large percentage of those that left in 1939 (when Franco arrived to the Pyrinees) returned a few weeks later (part of my family). They only needed a couple of signatures of Francoist sympathizers attesting that they had no blood crimes.
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Old 11-01-2011, 06:01 PM
JL
 
8,522 posts, read 14,539,581 times
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Where is Franco buried? I was in Madrid, Sevilla, Granada, and Barcelona with no one mentioning where he was buried or anything about him.
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:40 PM
 
125 posts, read 206,382 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL View Post
Where is Franco buried? I was in Madrid, Sevilla, Granada, and Barcelona with no one mentioning where he was buried or anything about him.
He is buried in the Valle de los Caídos, it's a massive and impressive underground basilica. I went to see it many years ago.
Valle de los Caídos - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre
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Old 11-01-2011, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,440 posts, read 28,607,009 times
Reputation: 7477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
Pidgeon

You might be referring to Suddenly Last Summer? It's an American movie but it included a very famous sequence where a guy, while on holidays in Spain, is stalked, surrounded and eventually lynched/devoured/who-knows-what by a large group of local children and youngsters.


I saw that movie and I don't understand what it meant, quite laughable. I remember that it was a Mediterranean town of some sort. I'm from a Mediterranean town and we never ate any American tourists, Robert Mitchum lived here during one year and visited the town frequently, he was very popular here during the 50's. Errol Flynn was a common fixture (and he filmed two films in this town) and way back, before the war, this town was frequented by Mary Pickford and Buster Keaton.
"Suddenly Last Summer" was filmed in Tossa de Mar on the Costa Brava.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:35 AM
 
1,801 posts, read 3,554,965 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
Most did return. A large percentage of those that left in 1939 (when Franco arrived to the Pyrinees) returned a few weeks later (part of my family). They only needed a couple of signatures of Francoist sympathizers attesting that they had no blood crimes.
Over half a million of Spaniards went into exile, most of whom never returned or only did when Spain was democratic again. They ended up having children and grandchildren in other countries.

This doesn't include the over 2 million of Spaniards who had to go find subsistence abroad between the 50s and the 70s because everyone in Spain lived in such luxury.

And, needless to say, many people were unwilling to ask Francoist thieves and murderers for signatures and "approval" to be able to return. Principles, who wants them... Right?

Last edited by noela; 11-02-2011 at 05:20 AM..
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:11 AM
 
1,801 posts, read 3,554,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
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Obviously, you were not in Spain during the transition and during the previous years before the death of Franco. You only know what you read in some biased foreign media.

So, people who lived when Spain was a Republic told you all sort of things and I, on the other hand, have no family and neither do my friends, so I only get information from biased FOREIGN media. (It's always hilarious to me when some people in Spain say that foreigners "have no idea" or "are biased" when they tell what happened during Franco)

For the last time: stop assuming.

Franco prepared the transition by appointing King Juan Carlos I as his sucessor in 1948. King Juan Carlos was named Jefe de Estado two days after the death of Franco.

Franco wanted to appoint Carrero Blanco, and who was Carrero Blanco??? Was he a highly democratic guy? He was also advised not to pick Juan Carlos as his successor because many fascist bros wouldn't trust him, but since Spain was his cortijo and we was dying anyway he did, making sure that his family would live well no matter what. Aw, loving fathers...

But were it not for Juan Carlos' authentic commitment to keep democracy alive (something which Franco's wife -despite all the privileges and stolen property and money she has kept- and many of Franco's old military chums didn't like one bit -the politicians were different because they managed to keep their status and in many cases their jobs-), the military coup of 1981 would have been disastrous.


Adolfo Suarez (Falange) and Juan Carlos I (in command of the Armed Forces) forced the peaceful resignation of the Francoist Parliament (Cortes) and the celebration of a Referendum in 1978 for the Democratic transition.

Which makes Suárez and Juan Carlos the "heroes".

It was a peaceful process carried out by the Francoist stablishment, the Armed Forces and with the participation of many European countries and the American Embassy. The only opossition was ETA (a marxist leninist group) and GRAPO (a communist group).

An important part of the armed forces were quick to resort to violence and imposition few years later. And when speaking about terrorist violence during the transition, how come you're forgetting Blas Piñar and Fuerza Nueva (Guerrilleros de Cristo Rey), a fascist/Francoist party? And the Matanza de Atocha? How convenient...

Your knowledge of Spain is biased and less informed than the French and American posters that are contributing to this thread.
And this said by the one who talks, for instance, about PSOE having been a Marxist-Leninist party... Who's said that, Pío Moa? César Vidal?

Your unwillingless to stick to the debate is revealing. And you mention the posters who've agreed with you as being wiser LOL that typical "strength in numbers" thing... Elias Canetti should be alive to be able to devote a new chapter of Crowds and Power to this sort of internet micro-mob/micro-herd behaviour.

But let me use your pointless fallacies... You know what, Manolón? Your knowledge of Spain is biased (estómac agraït, oi?) and you don't seem to be too educated in any aspect. So there's one of your arguments.

Tedious.

Last edited by noela; 11-02-2011 at 05:30 AM..
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:43 AM
 
1,801 posts, read 3,554,965 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by diet1 View Post
He is buried in the Valle de los Caídos, it's a massive and impressive underground basilica. I went to see it many years ago.
Valle de los Caídos - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre
What a hideous place lol. Whenever I go to the sierra and see that cross looming there, ruining the landscape... At least other totalitarian governments (and the architects working for them), if generally too grandiose and pompous, had some sense of art and aesthetics.

It's obviously not one of the many wonderful monuments that the Comunidad de Madrid has to offer.
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:19 AM
 
2,226 posts, read 5,110,059 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by bailarina View Post
In the 60 still had hundreds of thousands of political exiles, i guess they could return with the mouth closed In fact, most political exiles never returned Manolón.

-----

Here in this town, one of those political exiles returned in 1975, but since he was a member of the POUM and he killed the breadmaker's son in 1936 and later stole many houses of wealthy people that fled to San Sebastian, he was TOLD that he was not welcomed. There were many os such cases.
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:22 AM
 
2,226 posts, read 5,110,059 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
"Suddenly Last Summer" was filmed in Tossa de Mar on the Costa Brava.

------

In Tossa de Mar....now the place is totally urbanized. Not very different from my town, and we never ate American tourists...
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