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The country that imprisons wealthy who do not follow Putin, poisons foreign journalists, kills ethnic minorities, shoots down passenger jets, invades neighboring countries, lies to the entire world, and ruthlessly controlled by a mentally ill dictator with Asperger's Syndrome, is now "respecting basic human rights"!
I think Boxus is in Russia and doesn't want to "disappear" in the middle of the night, like so many of his countrymen.
LOL, I am in the USA, Miami to be specific.
I did not state Russia is perfect regarding human rights, just that Russia does observe basic human rights. Many of the US's allies are much more brutal regarding human rights, that does not excuse Russia, but puts Russia's issues in perspective that while not perfect, it is much better than many countries the US considers friends.
As for your accusations;
- poisons foreign journalists - you need to be specific with this example, but yea, Russia has a horrible history with its treatment of all journalists.
- lies to the world - US does this continuously (see Iraq WMD for a recent example).
- kill ethnic minorities - you need to be specific; what ethnic minorities are being killed? Minorities love Russia, that is why they risk life and limb to get there, Russia treats them better than their own people treat them in their country.
- shoots down passenger jets - Russia has never shot down a passenger jet, however, Ukraine has and the US has.
- invades neighboring countries - the US is the king on this one, how many combat engagements has the US been involve din now in other countries?
- lies to the entire world - please see the comments regarding the US and the US's history of lies; does not excuse Russia, but you should not throw rocks from glass houses.
- aspergers? please, they can hardly diagnose kids, let alone someone they never met, especially since the guidelines are constantly changing, this is yet another CIA idiocy.
@NOLA. Yep, it's a comedy show. Though no one would ever say Alabama has been the easiest place to be gay in America, it is certainly better than most of Russia. Gay activist organizations have been present even in Alabama and Mississippi cities and large university campuses since before 1975. Though sodomy laws were on the books, they just weren't applied. Meanwhile, gay activist groups were given university space in larger public universities in Alabama and were able to independently publish and distribute newsletters (which probably could get into the hands of minors). All of this is illegal in Russia today, 2015, after Putin's "anti-gay progaganda" law. Everything in Alabama 40 years ago would be considered "propaganda" in Russia today, and you might face imprisonment or at the very least stiff fines if you did the same in Moscow now.
Boxus is really being disingenuous to even mention Alabama, which is now a place where gay marriage is legal. But even way back 40 years ago, Alabama was a much better place for gays than Russia. It's probably easier to be gay in Birmingham or Huntsville now than it is in a big city of 10 million like Moscow or 4 million like St. Petersburg. And don't even mention Russia's other large urban areas: Novosibirsk, Yekaterinburg, Volgograd, etc. Much less to worry about down in 'Bama, and less paranoid for gays all around.
The gay scene is alive and well in Russia, if you have ever been there/lived there, you would know this. As I stated, if Russia truly was anti-gay, there would not be a statue of Freddy Mercury on Nevsky Prospect, there would not be an open and active gay community, and there sure as heck would not be gay celebrities and state TV.
The gay propaganda law, despite being ridiculous in my opinion, is not that big of a deal, it is only aimed at minors. Other countries that the US calls friends, like Saudi Arabia, go much further on their oppression of gays, yet silence from people like you about it, and I did not see the US send a gay delegation to Saudi Arabia to welcome the new king, will the US send a gay delegation to the World Cup?
This propaganda law was way overreacted to, and by the way, a few states in the US have similar laws on the books, and numerous school districts in the US have rules similar as well (including idiotic things like banning Winnie the Poo because some people think Piglet is gay), yet silence on these laws and acts...
As for gay marriage, most of the world does not recognize gay marriage, so Russia is not even close to some outlier in this category. The US just now is recognizing it, not even ten years ago gays were not even allowed to openly serve in the military nor get married in most states, so you can get off the high horse.
Attacking Russia on gay rights is like calling some-one ugly without checking yourself in the mirror first.
Over in China they have something they call the 50 cent party, every positive post in favor of their government and/or in favor of the Han majority nets them half a yuan, it's a good way to make some cash to buy some new cd-s. You can tell by the sudden appearance of the poster, the broken english, and the need to defend a topic all of the sudden out of nowhere. Perhaps I haven't see you around enough, but the thoughts do come. Russia seems to have its own version, a soul can find them postings on news sites a bit back and maybe still now. I guess at least 100 people have brought this idea up before me, maybe it has already been disproven.
Last edited by Mahhammer; 02-17-2015 at 10:38 PM..
Over in China they have something they call the 50 cent party, every positive post in favor of their government and/or in favor of the Han majority nets them half a yuan, it's a good way to make some cash to buy some new cd-s. You can tell by the sudden appearance of the poster, the broken english, and the need to defend a topic all of the sudden out of nowhere. Perhaps I haven't see you around enough, but the thoughts do come. Russia seems to have its own version, a soul can find them postings on news sites a bit back and maybe still now. I guess at least 100 people have brought this idea up before me, maybe it has already been disproven.
I am sure that if some-one says something you don't agree with, they must be a paid propagandist.
I live in USA, and I do NOT buy that gay rights is the holly grail of democracy. I don't care about or for gays at all. This none of my business and I don't plan on making it mine.
In USA, gay marriage comes from a question asked to the Supreme Court. The question is" Is it fair to deny marriage benefits to gay couples ?" Under US Constitution together with pro-gay propaganda in the media , the Supreme Court ruling is fair. But if this question was asked the voters the gay marriage issue would have been resolved differently. I don't know if I would have voted on the gay rights issue myself.
Hence, take a good look in mirror, before you go accusing others of something !
The gay scene is alive and well in Russia, if you have ever been there/lived there, you would know this..
Every country has an "alive and well" gay scene in 2015 in terms of social venues, bars, clubs, and places to meet. That is true in Vietnam and Paraguay now, among others. I refer to being able to join a gay organization, even a so-called "militant one", or being able to march in any gay pride parade in a large city without being physically assaulted by counter-demonstrators. (I'm not saying there can't be anti-gay protesters heckling gays on the sidelines, but they should not be allowed to attack and punch gay demonstrators in the face, as they do in Moscow and St. Petersburg with impunity.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
The gay propaganda law is not that big of a deal, it is only aimed at minors. Other countries that the US calls friends, like Saudi Arabia, go much further on their oppression of gays, yet silence from people like you about it, and I did not see the US send a gay delegation to Saudi Arabia to welcome the new king, will the US send a gay delegation to the World Cup?
.
Totally specious arguments, as every gay group, even the least militant, publishes newsletters, and minors can sometimes get ahold of these. Russia prohibits all "propaganda" that can possibly get into the hands of minors, so most all advocacy is proscribed in Russia. Russian gay groups are very limited in their activities compared to those in the US and western Europe. Russia is very much like the US in the 1950s -- and that is the HUGE difference. By the way: the religious and cultural practices in Saudi Arabia are off subject. So are those of Belarus, Kazakhstan, Venezuela, three political allies of Russia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
a few states in the US have similar laws on the books, and numerous school districts in the US have rules similar as well (including idiotic things like banning Winnie the Poo because some people think Piglet is gay), yet silence on these laws and acts... .
Only six US states had laws on the books when the Supreme Court overturned them in 2003. Even in these six states, the laws had not been applied since the 1960s (exceptions: in the commission of felonies such as selling hard drugs in an apartment). Moreover, in these six states, there were no laws against gay activism, and gay organizations were able to organize on public college campuses in all 50 states and Puerto Rico since the early 1970s (with university space made available in the Student Union). All of that is impossible in Russia today. And banning books because they're "gay" has been rare as rain in Death Valley since the 1940s -- always in small counties and municipalities, and always reversed in the end. Another specious argument that has no bearing on this discussion.
All of the above has been standard in most of the West since the mid-1960s at least. Russia is still about 40 to 50 years behind the times in terms of gay rights. Yes, of course there are gay clubs in Moscow, and you can meet someone in a public restroom, but that kind of gay "life" and "culture" is nothing to envy in the 21st century. Russia is benighted and often repressive, and Putin's "anti-propaganda law" is very extreme. Even the most low-key gay rights activists in Moscow or St. Petersburg can face stiff fines or even imprisonment in Russia for things that have been legal in the most conservative US states since at least 1960.
Last edited by masonbauknight; 02-18-2015 at 10:31 AM..
Every country has an "alive and well" gay scene in 2015, terms of social venues, bars, clubs, and places to meet. That is true in Vietnam and Bolivia now, among others. I refer to being able to join a gay organization, even a "militant one", or being able to march in any gay pride parade in a large city without being physically assaulted by counter-demonstrators. (I'm not saying there can't be opponents heckling from the sidelines, but they should not be allowed to attack and punch gay demonstrators, as they do in Russia with impunity.
Hard to say, some people like marching other like making fun of those that march. If you take out sensationalism out of the news, then most protests in that part of the world end with some sort of a violence.
Hard to say, some people like marching other like making fun of those that march. If you take out sensationalism out of the news, then most protests in that part of the world end with some sort of a violence.
Not hard to say at all. I refer to marching down a city street carrying signs. Gay protesters in the US, UK, Europe, Australia have done that without incident since 1969-1970, and without being punched and bloodied by counter-demonstrators. In Russia, there's been incredible violence perpetrated against peaceful demonstrators, with the police often standing by, and even though Russia's gay-rights parades have been 100% political (a few signs but no gaudy floats and carnaval-like excess). Again, Russia is back in the 1950s on this, and Putin's anti-propaganda law makes it exactly as it was in the US during the 1950s. That is the difference.
Not hard to say at all. I refer to marching down a city street carrying signs. Gay protesters in the US, UK, Europe, Australia have done that without incident since 1969-1970, and without being punched and bloodied by counter-demonstrators. In Russia, there's been incredible violence perpetrated against peaceful demonstrators, with the police often standing by, and even though Russia's gay-rights parades have been 100% political (a few signs but no gaudy floats and carnaval-like excess). Again, Russia is back in the 1950s on this, and Putin's anti-propaganda law makes it exactly as it was in the US during the 1950s. That is the difference.
I am sorry you did not hear me the first time. Clashes between demonstrators and counter demonstrators are common in Russia. It not really matters what the demonstration is about.
For example: A group of demonstrators wearing Georgian Crosses crashed with a group of demonstrators wearing Communist Flags. The police broke it up by making mass arrests.
A pro gay rights group crashed with anti-gay rights group. The police broke it up by making mass arrests.
A pro-Urkaine group crashed with anti-Ukraine group. The police broke it up by making mass arrests.
They are new to democracy the way we practice it here, so their demonstrations often end with violence.
Goolge "fights in parliament" Tons of articles about fist fight breaking out in parliaments of various countries.
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