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Old 11-16-2015, 11:49 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,260 posts, read 108,258,157 times
Reputation: 116255

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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Well I meant the US first of all, since it were the Americans that sold the "bag of goodies" to Russia twenty years ago, about how "successful" is the model where money rule everything.
You mean, the World Bank, which is basically the US? Well, there's that, definitely. I recently met with an economist who specializes in Russia, mainly the Far East, but also in general. I asked her what she thought of Jeffrey Sachs' discussion of why the strategy failed, and she didn't seem to think he played a significant role. I wonder if maybe he ascribes too much importance to himself and the project he participated in. Anyway, she said the crash had to do with too much debt, not enough money in the bank, pretty simple. You might be interested in reading her book. Look up Judith Thornton on Amazon.
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Old 11-16-2015, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,262,731 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
OP: GREAT QUESTION!

You mean like the Cold War where you all just gave up?
The Cold War ended without aggression. It was an ideological defeat. Differences ideologies do not exist at present. Just business. And business people may always agree.
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Old 11-16-2015, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,501,689 times
Reputation: 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
The Cold War ended without aggression. It was an ideological defeat. Differences ideologies do not exist at present. Just business. And business people may always agree.
OH, there was aggression in the Cold War. I may be wrong but I thought one of the Russians gave in because they could not afford to upgrade their radar systems to face the new threats?
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Old 11-16-2015, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,262,731 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by 640TAG View Post
Didn't hurry? It took him all of 24 hours between slagging off the UK and doing a 180 degree turnaround and going even further!
Putin has more sources of information than we do. I think that the British did not even notice that the UK stop flying to Egypt. But Egypt is the country of main holiday destination for Russians. Stop flights to Egypt is serious blow to the Russian economy and the economy of Egypt.
Unfortunately, you can see only Putin, but real picture is more complicated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 640TAG View Post
I didn't see any headlines saying "Putin killed my children". They wouldn't be far from the truth, however. You forget that we have satellites that can see things you can't. There is no conclusive proof which side fired the missile, but one thing is certain - it had "Made In Russia" on the casing. The West did not encroach on the internationally recognised borders of a sovereign nation. The dirt is all on Putin's hands. In any case, Vlad know his Ukraine adventure was going to come back and bite him on the ass which is why he switched his diversion to Syria.
Putin, Putin, Putin... All clearly in your picture of the world. Putin is always to blame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 640TAG View Post
Only I didn't say anything like "Putin is to blame for the downed plane" did I? I said it is looking very likely that it is retaliation for his bombing raids in an attempt to shore up his old ally Assad, but this is, of course, very unpalatable to the Russian public who think he can do no wrong. The facts cannot be covered up indefinitely even with a manipulated media like Russia's.
Oh yeah, yeah. Russians are stupid and do not understand anything. We drink vodka every day, look propaganda and produce missiles.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,262,731 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
OH, there was aggression in the Cold War. I may be wrong but I thought one of the Russians gave in because they could not afford to upgrade their radar systems to face the new threats?
Main reason is people wanted change. West promised that they would be friends, and people believed it.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,865,139 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
Main reason is people wanted change. West promised that they would be friends, and people believed in it.
The Russians promised that they would be friends, and people believed in it.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,262,731 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
The Russians promised that they would be friends, and people believed in it.
Who expanded NATO to Russia's borders? Who built a missile defense system in Eastern Europe? Who supported the anti-constitutional coup in former Soviet countries? Leave your tales to your children.

+ About the economy tells erasure.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,262,731 times
Reputation: 1742
Who started to bomb Serbia without UN approval, while Russia has strongly opposed?

"Friends."
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:31 PM
 
10,275 posts, read 10,372,873 times
Reputation: 10644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
OH, there was aggression in the Cold War. I may be wrong but I thought one of the Russians gave in because they could not afford to upgrade their radar systems to face the new threats?
Exactly. The Cold War ended exactly because of aggression. One side collapsed over the weight of "keeping up" with the other side.

Unfortunately, the Russians learned entirely wrong lessons from the collapse. Inside of joining the Western world, they chose to become a rouge pariah state, which is why Russia is angry, declining, poor, and out of options.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,700 posts, read 4,957,035 times
Reputation: 4954
Well I was born in the US but I am of Russian descent. I can't say for certain if I support Putin in his domestic policies, but his foreign ones I mainly support. However I think he has been in power for a bit to long, and I hope he doesn't run for president in 2018. Also those of you living in Russia, who do you want the president to be in 2018? Putin, Medvedev, Lavrov, Zhirinovsky, Zhyuganov, Navalny, Shoygu etc.? Also do you support United Russia Party, or would you rather another political party take over the country?
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