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Today I'm in line to get a sno-cone in a parking lot and an attractive mom and her teen girls are in front of me. It takes 20 minutes to get their order. So I NOTICE the three older teen girls in leggings, around age 15-17 and the small girl and Mom are not in leggings. One teen is heavy size. This fashion trend is not going anywhere in a long time.
I made a small joke to hurry up, to show her I really wasn't in a hurry, said they only had one person to serve, and she laughed. She said one of her daughters was going to apply for work there. So I joked, "ok good, can she start now? We need her". She laughed. Lite chat to break the tension of waiting so long.
I don't see how I could possibly ask mom about this fashion trend, it would be too creepy from a man next in line. So of course I don't.
But me and mom do get really close for a moment.
When the small girl walks to the picnic table mom remains to place her order but she needed to watch her small girl cross the parking lot to make sure she is safe. And call out to the others to watch her cross the parking lot. As she does that she has to stand near me to see her because there is a parked car blocking her view. Well, she could have walked a little in that girl's direction, and gotten out of line. Instead, to stay in line, and be able to see the girl, mom had to get very close to me. And so she does. Mom stays in line and moves into my personal space, right next to me, just a few inches away, and then leans her head towards mine to see the girl. We are suddenly 10 inches apart eye to eye. She doesn't look at me, and she acts like I'm not there. She tells the girls to watch out for cars. They look at her like "what?" Small girl crosses parking lot safely, there were no cars nearby. I could see that just by looking. I think the mom could too, but she needed to teach her girls to watch out for cars, even if none are nearby. That's what mom's do.
So, the mom could have briefly walked out of line and ask me to keep her place for 30 seconds. Instead, she stayed in line causing her to move very close to me to see her girl. Strangers in line don't get this close. But a mom will to check on her girl. That was good. Ladies, if you need 30 seconds out of line, we'll keep your place.
I like some of them with a tunic or such but one thing I didn't care for about them was being out with my husband and seeing the ladies around us showing pretty much everything they have to my husband. Fortunately, he wasn't wearing those tight stretchy pants too or you would have known what he was thinking while looking. Men are visual and women know it. Add a cropped top and cleavage and he didn't stand a chance.
If he had, I probably wouldn't have noticed because I was taught you don't stare at people there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
Some of us ladies are well aware that men might have eyeballs to see and brains to think, we simply don't live our lives around that. We DON'T CARE.
It's not our responsibility.
There is a difference between these four things: Feelings. Thoughts. Words. Actions. You can feel or think whatever you want in the privacy of your brain. But if you don't believe you need to own your words or actions, then I can't help you. It doesn't matter what I wear. Pushing this argument is simply saying that men ought to be able to act like whatever and have it be someone else's fault. Heck that! And frankly I give men in general more credit.
There are people who are unpleasant enough I might have a thought of hitting them over the head with a brick, but I can't be like, "You know, you're really making me think about harming you right now. Has it occurred to you, to take some responsibility for my thoughts, and behave differently? Having to exercise self control is getting SO uncomfortable for me. In fact you should have really been thinking about my feelings before you even left home this morning." Consent violators aren't regular Joes who just got turned on by tight pants beyond their ability to control. Who stood there confused like, "Well I've got an erection and I really feel I should do something with it...hurr durr..." Ya'll are smarter than that. And if you are the kind of guy who would actually violate a woman, it won't matter what she is wearing beyond whether it's difficult to get it out of your way.
If this were really a valid line of logic, that women should obsess about what men might think in choosing our attire (if we're pretty, at least...and that's ridiculous too, given how subjective taste and attraction are) then women would never be permitted to wear bathing suits. Or are you asking we warn you first? Like it's different if you're going to the beach or pool, where you expect to see lady bodies, but when it's a surprise in public it's like AH! She caught me off guard and my wang got the better of me! lol? It's silly.
If you have discomfort with your own thoughts, that's your problem. Where do your rights end and mine begin? Understanding that you're not entitled to speak and act on every thought you have, let alone blame it on other people even if they inspired it...that's just a matter of being a civil human being.
Ya know what else is funny to me? "...your wildest imagination..." You have no idea how many women walking around you in the world are more perverted than you are. I'd bet my favorite yoga pants that I've DONE things beyond some men's wildest imagination. So yeah, that's cute. We have heads full of all kinds of thoughts, some of us do...we just know better than to throw 'em around all over the place or blame them on strangers.
So yeah. It's not that we have no idea. We just don't always feel like we should care. And the news? They just want us to be afraid of each other, isolated and divided. It's not really all that worse than it's ever been. Monstrous people have always existed, but they always were and still are, a minority.
I just find this mindset really annoying. Not only in terms of female autonomy, but because I find it insulting to the very many totally decent men I know, who may think whatever...but sure know how to behave.
I wish I could rep you again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom
“Bite you”? Ugh. No thank you.
Clearly you can dress exactly as you please. However. the fact that you don’t give a **** how you look, is going to have an effect on how others perceive you. I’m sure you don’t care, but that is just how it is and always will be.
You're right. I'm not trying to turn on guys or be a beauty queen when I'm at the grocery store or in the hardware store or riding a horse. If I want to attract men, I know how to do it. The difference is, I can CHOOSE when I want to be attractive.
The fact that there are perfect strangers out there telling me I have to be attractive to them ALL THE TIME is a little weird. So process this: There are times I'm not going to be attractive to everyone. If that happens to be on a day when some people are feeling judgy, then so be it.
Let me restate that to everyone here so they are clear on it. Some of you are not as important as you think you are. So quit taking it so personally when I dress to please ME, not you. Who do you people think you are, anyway?
All I can say is some people here must have paralytic fits when they go to the beach and see swimsuits. And it's a good thing Americans don't have topless beaches like they do in Europe. Our heart attack rates would soar to Jupiter. Do men in Europe at a topless beach walk around with continuous displays of can't-contol-my-feelings?
You're right. I'm not trying to turn on guys or be a beauty queen when I'm at the grocery store or in the hardware store or riding a horse. If I want to attract men, I know how to do it. The difference is, I can CHOOSE when I want to be attractive.
The fact that there are perfect strangers out there telling me I have to be attractive to them ALL THE TIME is a little weird. So process this: There are times I'm not going to be attractive to everyone. If that happens to be on a day when some people are feeling judgy, then so be it.
Let me restate that to everyone here so they are clear on it. Some of you are not as important as you think you are. So quit taking it so personally when I dress to please ME, not you. Who do you people think you are, anyway?
LOL. You are overthinking your impact on others. The thing is, when I see someone that presents themselves in a manner that shows that they don't care, well, I don't care either. About you. Basically, you disappear. So process that. EVERYONE judges. Every day. All day long. It's simply part of being human. You can care, or not care. But we ALL judge. Even those that say they don't. It's just human nature.
All I can say is some people here must have paralytic fits when they go to the beach and see swimsuits. And it's a good thing Americans don't have topless beaches like they do in Europe. Our heart attack rates would soar to Jupiter. Do men in Europe at a topless beach walk around with continuous displays of can't-contol-my-feelings?
Men do notice women in swimsuits at the beach. But not like as if a woman was walking around in her bikini at the grocery store (that's not near a beach), and appear almost nude by comparison.
I'm jolted by leggings because I never took notice before. Every place I go. Women, teens and kids.
Why are they so comfortable? And when you first wore them out in public, did you feel any apprehension?
You can head over P&OC and check out all the guys who are anti-leggings.
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My company has a dress code, and as long as we aren't showing camel toes and butt cracks we are fine. A blazer works well, or open front cardigan.
Plenty of designers have gotten into skinny pants and push them in their 'wear to work' line. Spandex is practically blended into everything anyway, but most of us understand that we aren't talking about workout wear, or the type of spandex you can get at the discount store for $4.99 a pair. The designer pants look great with a pump or bootie.
A woman can look professional in a skinny pant, and women have been doing so for years. Modern Professional Clothes.
If someone is stuck in a Conservative venue, c'est la vie!
Today I'm in line to get a sno-cone in a parking lot and an attractive mom and her teen girls are in front of me. It takes 20 minutes to get their order. So I NOTICE the three older teen girls in leggings, around age 15-17 and the small girl and Mom are not in leggings. One teen is heavy size. This fashion trend is not going anywhere in a long time.
I made a small joke to hurry up, to show her I really wasn't in a hurry, said they only had one person to serve, and she laughed. She said one of her daughters was going to apply for work there. So I joked, "ok good, can she start now? We need her". She laughed. Lite chat to break the tension of waiting so long.
I don't see how I could possibly ask mom about this fashion trend, it would be too creepy from a man next in line. So of course I don't.
But me and mom do get really close for a moment.
When the small girl walks to the picnic table mom remains to place her order but she needed to watch her small girl cross the parking lot to make sure she is safe. And call out to the others to watch her cross the parking lot. As she does that she has to stand near me to see her because there is a parked car blocking her view. Well, she could have walked a little in that girl's direction, and gotten out of line. Instead, to stay in line, and be able to see the girl, mom had to get very close to me. And so she does. Mom stays in line and moves into my personal space, right next to me, just a few inches away, and then leans her head towards mine to see the girl. We are suddenly 10 inches apart eye to eye. She doesn't look at me, and she acts like I'm not there. She tells the girls to watch out for cars. They look at her like "what?" Small girl crosses parking lot safely, there were no cars nearby. I could see that just by looking. I think the mom could too, but she needed to teach her girls to watch out for cars, even if none are nearby. That's what mom's do.
So, the mom could have briefly walked out of line and ask me to keep her place for 30 seconds. Instead, she stayed in line causing her to move very close to me to see her girl. Strangers in line don't get this close. But a mom will to check on her girl. That was good. Ladies, if you need 30 seconds out of line, we'll keep your place.
It sounds like you got aroused by the mom getting close to you.
20 minutes to get an order from presumably an ice cream truck?
It sounds like you got aroused by the mom getting close to you.
20 minutes to get an order from presumably an ice cream truck?
yes 20 minutes. Only one server in the truck and her 4 kids plus her had custom sno-cone orders I think. It takes almost 4 minutes to make a sno-cone.
Aroused? No. I was surprised. I was in line, she came really close, I didn't move. She didn't ask me to move. It seemed unusual she would enter my personal space like that.
This was a particularly interesting day. Another woman entered my personal space. At another store I was taking a pizza sample from a tray. A woman came up and said in a joking way, "how long do you think we can stand here and eat free food?" She was not in leggings.
Some of us ladies are well aware that men might have eyeballs to see and brains to think, we simply don't live our lives around that. We DON'T CARE.
It's not our responsibility.
There is a difference between these four things: Feelings. Thoughts. Words. Actions. You can feel or think whatever you want in the privacy of your brain. But if you don't believe you need to own your words or actions, then I can't help you. It doesn't matter what I wear. Pushing this argument is simply saying that men ought to be able to act like whatever and have it be someone else's fault. Heck that! And frankly I give men in general more credit.
There are people who are unpleasant enough I might have a thought of hitting them over the head with a brick, but I can't be like, "You know, you're really making me think about harming you right now. Has it occurred to you, to take some responsibility for my thoughts, and behave differently? Having to exercise self control is getting SO uncomfortable for me. In fact you should have really been thinking about my feelings before you even left home this morning." Consent violators aren't regular Joes who just got turned on by tight pants beyond their ability to control. Who stood there confused like, "Well I've got an erection and I really feel I should do something with it...hurr durr..." Ya'll are smarter than that. And if you are the kind of guy who would actually violate a woman, it won't matter what she is wearing beyond whether it's difficult to get it out of your way.
If this were really a valid line of logic, that women should obsess about what men might think in choosing our attire (if we're pretty, at least...and that's ridiculous too, given how subjective taste and attraction are) then women would never be permitted to wear bathing suits. Or are you asking we warn you first? Like it's different if you're going to the beach or pool, where you expect to see lady bodies, but when it's a surprise in public it's like AH! She caught me off guard and my wang got the better of me! lol? It's silly.
If you have discomfort with your own thoughts, that's your problem. Where do your rights end and mine begin? Understanding that you're not entitled to speak and act on every thought you have, let alone blame it on other people even if they inspired it...that's just a matter of being a civil human being.
Ya know what else is funny to me? "...your wildest imagination..." You have no idea how many women walking around you in the world are more perverted than you are. I'd bet my favorite yoga pants that I've DONE things beyond some men's wildest imagination. So yeah, that's cute. We have heads full of all kinds of thoughts, some of us do...we just know better than to throw 'em around all over the place or blame them on strangers.
So yeah. It's not that we have no idea. We just don't always feel like we should care. And the news? They just want us to be afraid of each other, isolated and divided. It's not really all that worse than it's ever been. Monstrous people have always existed, but they always were and still are, a minority.
I just find this mindset really annoying. Not only in terms of female autonomy, but because I find it insulting to the very many totally decent men I know, who may think whatever...but sure know how to behave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43
I think what you say about men is true, but it has nothing really to do with the clothes. In the 1700s men would go crazy over a glimpse of an ankle or a wrist. If we all ran around in muumuu's you all would find something sexy about that gunny sack.
Sonic, I have no idea if you are for what I said or against, but I do like your post. There are women who wear leggings and know what goes through some men's minds, there are others who are naive and don't really think about it, and then there are others who realize what goes on and get angry about it.
My take is that 90% of men can deal with whatever you throw at them in a rational manner. My post really was about the 10% that you know are not within the norms of society. That's fine for a grown woman. Me personally, I will not expose my own daughter to anything like that. Putting the blame on the men, that's fair, realizing that the culture needs to change, I'm sure I agree, allowing my own daughter to be on display for the sickos I know are out there, sorry, I can't partake of that.
Mikala, I definitely agree with this. There are cultures where everyone is naked, or breasts are not seen sexually for the most part. I think if we were allowed to walk around with no clothing it would be no different. However, my post has to do with the norms of our society at this point in time. If walking around naked were normal, then I would have different opinions.
I'm an atheist myself, so I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with nudity. However, I'm just responding to the norms of the current society and realizing that while most of us adhere to these norms, there are always going to be those who don't and I will not willingly invite those who don't to take advantage of me or my family.
I could leave my house unlocked when I go to work thinking that it's wrong to steal and I shouldn't change my habits based on immoral people. I could also leave it unlocked and put a sign outside my house saying that I refuse to lock my door just because there are evil people who steal things from others. However, I know that there are others, albeit a small percentage of the population, who would steal my things. Therefore, I adjust my behavior accordingly.
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EVERYONE judges. Every day. All day long. It's simply part of being human. You can care, or not care. But we ALL judge. Even those that say they don't. It's just human nature.
