[chopchop0]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

If someone would post the state's average income of a Floridia, I would question the credibility of the information. I would ask if/how the income was calculated (pensions,welfare,income earned from out-of state) and what population was counted (strictly residents, or were the non-residents, students, illegals, etc.) in the equation? Wouldn't the billionaires/millionaires completely skew the numbers and make Florida appear to be a much wealthier state than it really is? Would it not be much more meaningful to know the median salaries?

What both the Teacher Portal site and Education Weekly posted as average teacher salaries are truly bogus. Neither site states whether these are the salaries of strictly public school teachers, or are day care providers/ teachers, private school teachers, cyber school teachers, and/or parochial school teachers. If all are included in the equation, of course, states like Florida who pay their public teachers wages closer to the wages of the lowest tier of many of the northern states, will appear to be much closer to the "average" of many. A much more accurate comparison variable would be to define the population (eg. public school teachers only) at a median salary. Also, it might be more pertinent to compare teacher benefits nationally as part of the salary package, and then, see how great the discrepancies truly are.

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a idiom that has been often used to describe the influential power of numbers. Nothing could be more true than many of the statistics that many of our leaders create to deflect attention from the truth. Average teacher salaries and the purported educational gains of students taking state tests are lies, damned lies, and statistics and are the simplest means to misguide those who trust.

So then you shouldn't mind posting a link that proves your hypothesis

[RupertrepuR]

I don't know how the rest of Florida is but I went to school in Broward County (not too long ago) and the education system was HORRIBLE. The schools focus more on the stupid FCAT then actually teaching them anything of importance. All they care about is the money they'd get from the standardized testing. My sister still attends Taravella and it has not changed.

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by RupertrepuR

I don't know how the rest of Florida is but I went to school in Broward County (not too long ago) and the education system was HORRIBLE. The schools focus more on the stupid FCAT then actually teaching them anything of importance. All they care about is the money they'd get from the standardized testing. My sister still attends Taravella and it has not changed.

Your post probably has greater validity and reliability than most when it comes to evaluating school quality. Do you think that most of your fellow Florida public high school graduates would concur with your opinion?

Florida schools are not alone in teaching to the tests. The only difference is that FCAT is called by another name when administered across state boundaries. The politicians that create these tests have only one goal in mind- to show higher numbers in their political arena. It means little to the politicians whether the student is learning, or that the student is challenged to his/her highest potential, but the numbers must be higher. High scores sell houses, and high scores will advance personal political agendas. These tests are the focus of pseudo educational quality polls and are regularly "adjusted" to insure that more test-takers get higher scores. This is a really lousy system, and our younger generation is really being cheated of the highest quality education deserved.

[RupertrepuR]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

Your post probably has greater validity and reliability than most when it comes to evaluating school quality. Do you think that most of your fellow Florida public high school graduates would concur with your opinion?

Florida schools are not alone in teaching to the tests. The only difference is that FCAT is called by another name when administered across state boundaries. The politicians that create these tests have only one goal in mind- to show higher numbers in their political arena. It means little to the politicians whether the student is learning, or that the student is challenged to his/her highest potential, but the numbers must be higher. High scores sell houses, and high scores will advance personal political agendas. These tests are the focus of pseudo educational quality polls and are regularly "adjusted" to insure that more test-takers get higher scores. This is a really lousy system, and our younger generation is really being cheated of the highest quality education deserved.

It really is a lousy system, and I am aware that Florida is not the only state that does this. However, I attended high school in New York for the first two years of High School, and spent the last two years of them in Florida. There is no way Florida schools can compare to those of the New York schools. I was always learning something new at the school in NY, being challanged, yet here I didn't learn anything. The teachers aren't very good and neither was the system we had. I had a better education in New York without a doubt.

Now, obviously I'm sure you can find a crappy school in NY, and great school in Florida. I'm talking about the majority though.

Also, in NY (and I think California and a few other states) don't have an "FCAT", they have the regents, which in my opinion are way better. It actually focuses on all subjects instead of just reading, math, and writing.

And not to mention when I attended High School here in Florida, we actually had a full class period dedicated to "learning the FCAT". Ridiculous.

[**NoodLes**]

All you gotta do to realize how bad it is here is to get in the workforce here. I'm surprised half these people could actually fill out an application.

[Obrero]

Originally Posted by RupertrepuR

It really is a lousy system, and I am aware that Florida is not the only state that does this. However, I attended high school in New York for the first two years of High School, and spent the last two years of them in Florida. There is no way Florida schools can compare to those of the New York schools. I was always learning something new at the school in NY, being challanged, yet here I didn't learn anything. The teachers aren't very good and neither was the system we had. I had a better education in New York without a doubt.

Now, obviously I'm sure you can find a crappy school in NY, and great school in Florida. I'm talking about the majority though.

Also, in NY (and I think California and a few other states) don't have an "FCAT", they have the regents, which in my opinion are way better. It actually focuses on all subjects instead of just reading, math, and writing.

And not to mention when I attended High School here in Florida, we actually had a full class period dedicated to "learning the FCAT". Ridiculous.

This is not a problem that is unique to FL. We have the same issues with our public schools in NJ teaching to the NJ Ask test.

[Jo48]

Originally Posted by RupertrepuR

It really is a lousy system, and I am aware that Florida is not the only state that does this. However, I attended high school in New York for the first two years of High School, and spent the last two years of them in Florida. There is no way Florida schools can compare to those of the New York schools. I was always learning something new at the school in NY, being challanged, yet here I didn't learn anything. The teachers aren't very good and neither was the system we had. I had a better education in New York without a doubt.

Now, obviously I'm sure you can find a crappy school in NY, and great school in Florida. I'm talking about the majority though.

Also, in NY (and I think California and a few other states) don't have an "FCAT", they have the regents, which in my opinion are way better. It actually focuses on all subjects instead of just reading, math, and writing.

And not to mention when I attended High School here in Florida, we actually had a full class period dedicated to "learning the FCAT". Ridiculous.

Did you know a few years ago Florida Education "officials" went to NY to talk about instituting Regents type tests in Florida? FCAT's are not SUBJECT tests like the Regents and that is the problem with the FCAT, especially since they now want to grade the teachers on how well students do on the FCAT. What about a Social Studes, Foreign Languages, etc., teachers whose subject is not ON the FCAT?

I also graduated from NY schools through college. I have worked in both NY and Florida schools. No comparison, and New York ISN'T the best there is in the country.

[RupertrepuR]

Originally Posted by Jo48

Did you know a few years ago Florida Education "officials" went to NY to talk about instituting Regents type tests in Florida? FCAT's are not SUBJECT tests like the Regents and that is the problem with the FCAT, especially since they now want to grade the teachers on how well students do on the FCAT. What about a Social Studes, Foreign Languages, etc., teachers whose subject is not ON the FCAT?

I also graduated from NY schools through college. I have worked in both NY and Florida schools. No comparison, and New York ISN'T the best there is in the country.

You're right, it's not the best in the country, but it is better than Florida.

The whole education system is flawed, and there was something in the paper a few months ago saying that they were going to make it harder for children to even graduate from Kindergarten.

[Jo48]

Originally Posted by RupertrepuR

You're right, it's not the best in the country, but it is better than Florida.

The whole education system is flawed, and there was something in the paper a few months ago saying that they were going to make it harder for children to even graduate from Kindergarten.

Florida is going to administer state tests to PRE-K kids, who don't even HAVE to be in school. Why are they doing this? Simple, so they can grade the TEACHERS! Imagine trying to get a 4 year old to even sit long enough to take some state test?

[MovedfromFL]

FL plans a test for every single subject, in every single grade. We have to make sure the elementary art teacher isn't a slacker, you know? So it's a multiple choice "art" test for those 6 year olds who have art once every 8 days! Time for less painting and more fact drilling.

The only stakeholder who wins here is the testing company. BIG money flowing to them, beginning right about now.

I've pretty much had it with Florida's brain-dead "leaderhip" and bass ackwards approach to everything. Other states are making sensible steps toward accountability, while we implement a "ready, fire, aim" approach with an untested new evaluation system, no pilot program, and a $2 Billion state deficit that will once again force us to cut education. We are already almost dead last out of 50 states in education spending and teacher pay, yet we thing the answer is more cuts. This will not end well.