[citizen000483]

Originally Posted by ferret111

Do any of you teacher-bashers realize that Florida teachers' unions are little more than token organizations? This is the result of a botched teacher strike back in 1968.

no, they don't understand any basic facts about education in florida...they are too busy quoting talking points from radio talking heads about unions to learn anything about anything...

[seain dublin]

Originally Posted by kiggy2

Come on, our educational system around the country has suffered over the past 3 decades, prim arily due to the union influence. Basically tenuring incompetent teachers (yes, there are some out there- believe it or not) just because of time rendered is stupid. Why not give merit raises like the rest of America? I'm tired of giving my tax money to burnt out teachers who are phoning it in until they can get their pension. Our school system could have used this system.

Really, because the new trend in FL is to lay off teachers and hire them back as long term subs with no benefits for around $13 an hour.

Nice to get an education and be told you can have your job, but we're going to cut your salary in half and take away your medical benefits.

You're one of the snowbirds who has the "I paid taxes up north, I don't care about schools or libraries in FL" mentality.

Yes merit raises, when you have no parental discipline going on at home and the teacher is supposed to do it all.

FL just made the national news again when a 30 yr teacher with a good record defended herself against a 16yr old punk who was harassing her.

She got suspended and has been cleared of any wrongdoing legally, but her job is still in question.

She had the nerve to defend herself against a male 40yrs her junior.

These teachers have got it made!

[Kevin from Tampa]

The thing that Scott wants to do is lessen the social engineering efforts being pushed through in public schools.

It's honestly something I kind of agree with.

He'd like schools privatized. I don't agree with that.

All that said, the current de-funding of public schools is very very bad for our state. I'm not huge on govt spending, but for education, I'm very ok with it. It's an investment.

[randian]

Originally Posted by vaughanwilliams

I can honestly say that I've never heard anyone who legitimately knows anything about education say that.

Because, obviously, anybody whose opinions differ from the NEA's cannot legitimately know anything about education.

[randian]

Originally Posted by kiggy2

Why not give merit raises like the rest of America?

Teacher's unions uniformly fight all efforts to impose any kind of merit in hiring and promotion.

[randian]

Originally Posted by OrlFlaUsa

Never said they were beyond reproach. However, you said they were overpaid and that you have no problem paying them less, which is disgusting.

The distinction between "teachers must not be paid less" and "beyond reproach" eludes me. Please elucidate.

Originally Posted by OrlFlaUsa

New teachers barley make enough to have a small mortgage/rent payment, car, few bills including student loans, and enough to save a few hundred per month.

Let's assume that's true. So what? Lots of jobs are like that. There's nothing special about being a teacher. If you want the big bucks, be an engineer.

[newyorker24]

Wow. So now the way to improve the public school system in FL is to lay off more teachers and cut the pay/benefits for the ones that get the privilege of keeping their jobs to teach what will become extremely overcrowded classes. I guess I had it all wrong. But I'm glad this thread has enlightened me .

[FloridaKash]

The root cause for our education system failing is the shift in attitude as a country. It used to be that teacher's were very respected pillars in the community. The entire community treated them with resounding respect. As a teacher you knew you would never be rich or wealthy, but you received something money couldn't buy, the affection of your community and the satisfaction of inspiring young minds. You had good job security. Teacher's were happy with making an OK living and knowing they would have a pension after helping improve their community for the next 30 years.

Well, viola, welcome to 2011. Age of reality TV, marketing that brainwashes everyone in America to 'needing' more than they already have. Everyone thinks they need a new car, bigger house, vacations which used to be only for the rich. Well guess what folks? The teacher's that parents these days yell at and blame for their children performing below expectations have grown up being brainwashed as well. Teacher's are no longer respected and admired in the community as they once were. Now-a-days they're essentially emotional punching bags for parents who do not put the time into their kid's education as they should because both parents are working long hour because they 'need more'.

So, basically what has happened? Teacher's, just like everyone else is just about he almighty dollar. It's no longer about wanting to be a pillar in the community. It's no longer about being respected in the community such as a fireman or police officer are (or, once were). Their retirement and benefits have been slashed time and time again, job security is now nonexistent. Every couple years their continuously shrinking benefits and retirement is attacked in contract talks. The only reason anyone becomes a teacher these days is so they can have summers off. Unfortunately, being a teacher used to be a respectful profession and teacher's were proud to state they were a teacher. Now, it's a profession that is often criticized by the public and many teachers no longer have the pride that hey had in previous generations.

The education system is broken. Throwing money at it won't fix it. You cannot educate people unless you have a passion for it. To begin fixing the education system society needs to look at teachers in the same light they did 30 - 40+ years ago. Without the support and involvement of their parents, today's youth and tomorrow's education system will remain broken. Why do people feel as though their main responsibility in regards to their child's education is simply dropping them off at school everyday and on time?

[kiggy]

I come from Mass originally, where teacher unions are simply out of control. With the economy in the toilet, these unions are expecting that teachers have increases regardless. And the tenure issue is terrible in Mass -- I had a child in the school system who's teacher used to show films and TV shows for 3/4ths of the class room time while she went out for smoke breaks. But this woman was tenured, didn't give a rat's patoot about her kids, and because of her union protection, she has 3 more years of showing "I Love Lucy" reruns until her retirement. I'm not saying that all teachers are like that -- far from it. But unions are corrupt, always have been, and are more interested in seeing their own organization grow politically powerful, and zero interest in our children's education. Am I wrong?

As for parents, absolutely, there are some out there who should be jailed for the way they raise their children -- agreed. I feel badly for teachers who sincerely care about their students and are abused by them in return. But unions don't help the matter. They hinder our children's educations.

[newyorker24]

Originally Posted by kiggy2

feel badly for teachers who sincerely care about their students and are abused by them in return. But unions don't help the matter. They hinder our children's educations.

If the government treated teachers with respect for their profession (ie not trying to take away their pay and benefits every chance they get and at the same time making their jobs harder) there would not be a need for unions. My employer believes in this firmly- that if the company treats employees well we will never try to bring a union into the workplace. The company has been around 50+ years and guess what? It's working! Even in these tough times they do their best to take care of the employees.

I don't always agree with everything that unions do but they wouldn't be there to begin with if people had been treated fairly all along. Cutting away at an already low education budget isn't going to make anything better.

I actually know one young teacher that recently left her job because she could make more money and get better benefits working as an administrative assistant. Is it what she wants to be doing? No. But she's tired of constantly wondering when/if she's going to lose her job, when/if she will ever get a raise again, whether or not her benefits will be cut again, etc. So she opted for an easy, lower-stress, and also less intellectually challenging job but with better compensation and benefits. It's really sad because she was a great teacher (her students and their parents all loved her) and she loves children.