[Prichard]

The major supermarket chains here in NY are union. The workers would probably strike if the stores tried to do something like that.

Hmmm, ever wonder why Florida's economy is strong and New York's, and other Northern economies seem to always be struggling? Ever wonder why there are no more manufacturing plants in the North and Rust Belt? Ever wonder why we have so many people just dying to get out of New York just to find work in Florida?

Ya, I know the weather has something to do with it. But, just maybe, your beloved unions do to. Companies need to be able to raise and lower wages, and to hire and fire people as needed to remain competitive. Contrary to popular belief, wages don't always just go up, regardless of what the Unions try to do. If the Union is too strong, wages hit zero after the company moves to a more economically friendly forum.

[Jammie]

Prichard, I understand what you're saying. I really don't know enough about unions since I also come from a non-union state. But something I find sad about this is the fact that people who have already maxed to the top of the scale from years of service now have to take a $1,040 a year cut in pay. The article doesn't mention a thing about a cut in wages for the higher up employees. If they're trying to remain competitive, wouldn't it just be more fair to freeze the raises for everyone instead of just taking away from the workers?

[HockeyMom72]

Originally Posted by gypsychic

Any talk of unions gets folks fired. My mom worked for years in an un-airconditioned sewing factory, for slave wages and no paid vacation and died of lung cancer after years of inhaling fibers and dye chemicals.

The fact is, the wages for most jobs in Florida are low, and going lower, there have been many articles recently about how many companies are laying of thousands of workers. Job market is going from bad to worse with the economic situation we have in this state right now. Anyone who has a good job here should hang on to it and thank your lucky stars. Right now my hubby is working for the county and it's a good job, but have no idea what the looming tax cuts will bring. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best!

National Labor Relations Act of 1935 - You cannot be fired for joining a union. This is a FEDERAL law. It does not matter what the "State of Florida" says. Federal law takes preference. There already is a national grocery workers union (and many others), and as such, the union's lawyers probably would represent the fired employee, who tried to join the union, in the suit.

People really need to be more informed of their rights.

[macguy]

Originally Posted by Jammie

Prichard, I understand what you're saying. I really don't know enough about unions since I also come from a non-union state. But something I find sad about this is the fact that people who have already maxed to the top of the scale from years of service now have to take a $1,040 a year cut in pay. The article doesn't mention a thing about a cut in wages for the higher up employees. If they're trying to remain competitive, wouldn't it just be more fair to freeze the raises for everyone instead of just taking away from the workers?

Employees don't all represent the same value. Lets face it, these are for the most part unskilled jobs and the workers have no marketable skills to use as a bargaining chip. I have always been under the impression that food markets work on one of the smallest margins of profit in any industry. Would you rather they over paid some guy collecting carts and pass the cost on to you?

[Cougar31]

Originally Posted by Prichard

Hmmm, ever wonder why Florida's economy is strong and New York's, and other Northern economies seem to always be struggling? Ever wonder why there are no more manufacturing plants in the North and Rust Belt? Ever wonder why we have so many people just dying to get out of New York just to find work in Florida?

Ya, I know the weather has something to do with it. But, just maybe, your beloved unions do to. Companies need to be able to raise and lower wages, and to hire and fire people as needed to remain competitive. Contrary to popular belief, wages don't always just go up, regardless of what the Unions try to do. If the Union is too strong, wages hit zero after the company moves to a more economically friendly forum.

I would agree with your statement ONLY if measures such as cuting wages are applicable all the way from top to the bottom and not like it has been now only for the bottom.
slashing .50 cents form some one who makes 11$/HR and giving increasing bonuses to those who pill 6 figures. That's nothing but greed and thifery.

[Prichard]

slashing .50 cents form some one who makes 11$/HR and giving increasing bonuses to those who pill 6 figures. That's nothing but greed and thifery.

No. That is capitalism, based on education, experience, and abilities. The supply of workers who simply follow the instructions and procedures developed by others are far greater than those that can and do stratigically direct and plan the company's profitability, structure, competitiveness, marketing, procurment, management, shipping and delivery, acquisitions, construction and opperations. There is nothing at all unfair about this. Some people, and their families, sacrifice, scrimp save and go into debt to obtain for themselves or provide their children a quality education. They plan for the future by sacrificing today. They forgoe incomes to spend time going to class and studying. They put off having families so that they can work and save during some of their productive years. They risk going into debt for education.

Others value work and immediate income over planning for the future. They have children while in highschool or start families right after highschool, forgoeing college, raise children in single parent homes, and otherwise "live for today" rather than "plan for the future". This is a matter of life choices, not who's right or wrong. It's amazing to me how we sympathize with the "underdog", eventhough the person who attains wealth and status likely made huge personal sacrifices and exerted extreme discipline to get there.

So, there's no way I will buy into an arguement that cutting someone's low wage is somehow fundementally unfair in America. Afterall, that person is free to go work somewhere else, and I suppose if enough people do just that, then the executive that made a "bad" decision will quickly find himself looking for a new job too.

[Jammie]

Macguy, no, of course I wouldn't want them to overpay a guy collecting carts, but it'd be nice if he could make enough to be above the poverty level.

Cougar, that's what I would see as being fair, too.

Prichard, I know what you're saying, BUT wouldn't it be funny to see all the Publix employees quit working at their "menial" jobs and go to college? HMMM where would that leave a company like Publix? Of course it would never happen, but it's a thought.

I guess the thing that surprised me most about this article is the fact that Publix is a well respected company. Walmart isn't so that would not be a surprise.

[HockeyMom72]

Originally Posted by Prichard

Hmmm, ever wonder why Florida's economy is strong and New York's, and other Northern economies seem to always be struggling? Ever wonder why there are no more manufacturing plants in the North and Rust Belt? Ever wonder why we have so many people just dying to get out of New York just to find work in Florida?

Ya, I know the weather has something to do with it. But, just maybe, your beloved unions do to. Companies need to be able to raise and lower wages, and to hire and fire people as needed to remain competitive. Contrary to popular belief, wages don't always just go up, regardless of what the Unions try to do. If the Union is too strong, wages hit zero after the company moves to a more economically friendly forum.

First, of all I am not "dying" to get out of NY. Sorry, guy, stop living under a rock. These jobs up "North" (and across the country) aren't going to Florida, or anywhere else in the USA. They are going to CHINA and INDIA because the companies want to pay dirt cheap wages and make more and more of a profit. I am not talking about manufacturing jobs here either. Call a help line to get your lap top fixed. Who are you talking to? Somebody in Bangladore. Call up your customer sevice at your bank. Ditto. You get somebody else in INDIA. Manufacturing jobs? They went to CHINA a long time ago. Get the picture????? Do you have any idea what they pay workers in India and China? You could not live ANYWHERE in the United States on what that pay is.

My husband lost one job after 9/11. Remember that? It had a MAJOR impact here. The second time his IT job was offshored to India. They were both major corporations. Yes, he took the job at a very small company in Florida because he HAD to, not because he was "dying" to go there. It's called making the best of a bad sitution. He is only a few years away from retirement. Incidentially, 3 of the IT people there are also from NY. This company placed ads in the New York papers. I also see so many ads here in NY to "Teach in Florida" also. They can't find anybody in Forida? hmmmmm.

I, myself, work in the non profit sector. Nothing you said applies to my line of work. They get their money from Federal and State grants and private donors. There are a lot of jobs here in NY (private and state) for me. There are a lot of jobs (private and state) for me in Florida, and just about anywhere in the country. Besides, you cannot offshore working face to face with the developmentally disabled to India or China.

[Cougar31]

Originally Posted by Prichard

No. That is capitalism, based on education, experience, and abilities. The supply of workers who simply follow the instructions and procedures developed by others are far greater than those that can and do stratigically direct and plan the company's profitability, structure, competitiveness, marketing, procurment, management, shipping and delivery, acquisitions, construction and opperations. There is nothing at all unfair about this. Some people, and their families, sacrifice, scrimp save and go into debt to obtain for themselves or provide their children a quality education. They plan for the future by sacrificing today. They forgoe incomes to spend time going to class and studying. They put off having families so that they can work and save during some of their productive years. They risk going into debt for education.

Others value work and immediate income over planning for the future. They have children while in highschool or start families right after highschool, forgoeing college, raise children in single parent homes, and otherwise "live for today" rather than "plan for the future". This is a matter of life choices, not who's right or wrong. It's amazing to me how we sympathize with the "underdog", eventhough the person who attains wealth and status likely made huge personal sacrifices and exerted extreme discipline to get there.

So, there's no way I will buy into an arguement that cutting someone's low wage is somehow fundementally unfair in America. Afterall, that person is free to go work somewhere else, and I suppose if enough people do just that, then the executive that made a "bad" decision will quickly find himself looking for a new job too.

to quickly respond to you:
what people decide to do with their money is their personnal business.
now, if you are implying that when a CEO cuts his company's work force or decide to make employees re-apply for the same job at lower wage and all this "sacrifice" so the company can be more prosperous. in the same time allocates bigger bonuses to the top layer, I am not sure what type of ethics you are talking about.

[hiknapster]

I worked for Publix for a year. It was the worst job I ever had.

We discussed it here awhile back.

What really gets me is, they build a Publix on every corner, then whine when they are no long making a profit. By doing that, they even undercut themselves.