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When dealing with historical topics the closer you get to the primary source, the better. You can look for accounts written by mixed race people on their lives, then and now to see how they feel as opposed to going to fiction writers. In the end fiction is just fiction and it does not necessarily reflect reality.
Also, the ethnic composition of the US is different today. You've immigrants from big parts of Latin America and the Caribbean where many people identify as mixed, and you now have people talk openly about being from multiracial backgrounds beyond being Black and white.
The ridiculous breaking people down into 1/4, 1/8th, 116th, and whatever other nonsense is not how people feel today. I'm a combination of African, European, and South Asian and I certainly do not feel that way.
That is an interesting perspective thank you for sharing. It's possible that I see things the way that I do because I have lived most of my life in the South and a lot of people here (both black and white) still fit into the old stereotypes that were set down for them years and years ago. It's a shame really. These fictionalized accounts are often self fulfilling prophecies around where I live.
That is an interesting perspective thank you for sharing. It's possible that I see things the way that I do because I have lived most of my life in the South and a lot of people here (both black and white) still fit into the old stereotypes that were set down for them years and years ago. It's a shame really. These fictionalized accounts are often self fulfilling prophecies around where I live.
Do keep in mind there are 50 states in the country and not all the South is the same. South Florida is full of Hispanics and Caribbean people (and other people from other places). Texas too has undergone big demographics changes.
And then there's the nation as a whole.
And it's even in the media. Barack Obama is the President (mixed race). Naomi Campbell has a Chinese grandmother (the rest of her family is Black. Halle Berry, oscar winner (mixed race) has had children by two white men, one of whom she married. LaLa Anthony and Carmelo Anthony are mixed race Puerto Ricans (Black and White mainly). Rosie Perez identifies as a combination of White, Black, and Native American. Julie Chen the Asian host of the view is married to a white guy and they have a kid. Kimora Lee is Korean and Black.
Just like President Obama, there was nothing at all tragic about these people's lives. So put down the fiction and pay attention to present reality.
Do keep in mind there are 50 states in the country and not all the South is the same. South Florida is full of Hispanics and Caribbean people (and other people from other places). Texas too has undergone big demographics changes.
And then there's the nation as a whole.
And it's even in the media. Barack Obama is the President (mixed race). Naomi Campbell has a Chinese grandmother (the rest of her family is Black. Halle Berry, oscar winner (mixed race) has had children by two white men, one of whom she married. LaLa Anthony and Carmelo Anthony are mixed race Puerto Ricans (Black and White mainly). Rosie Perez identifies as a combination of White, Black, and Native American. Julie Chen the Asian host of the view is married to a white guy and they have a kid. Kimora Lee is Korean and Black.
Just like President Obama, there was nothing at all tragic about these people's lives. So put down the fiction and pay attention to present reality.
THANK YOU for pointing out that there are fifty states and the South isn't the only place in the country. I'm glad you cleared that up for me. And OMG are you serious there are successful mix-raced people? Whaaaaa?
Obviously you missed my point but that's ok. I actually pay quite A LOT of attention to reality and what goes on in MY reality (like I said) is what my statement referred to. Like I said (again) fiction also leads to reality so it IS absolutely valid to this discussion (Paradoxically though it may seem, it is none the less true that life imitates art far more than art imitates life. - Oscar Wilde). If there is nothing tragic about these (real) peoples' lives, then why is there still such a booming business in hair straightener and skin lightener? And what has made people feel like they need to buy these things? THE MEDIA, THAT'S WHAT, the fiction to which you say we should pay no heed.
THANK YOU for pointing out that there are fifty states and the South isn't the only place in the country. I'm glad you cleared that up for me. And OMG are you serious there are successful mix-raced people? Whaaaaa?
Obviously you missed my point but that's ok. I actually pay quite A LOT of attention to reality and what goes on in MY reality (like I said) is what my statement referred to. Like I said (again) fiction also leads to reality so it IS absolutely valid to this discussion (Paradoxically though it may seem, it is none the less true that life imitates art far more than art imitates life. - Oscar Wilde). If there is nothing tragic about these (real) peoples' lives, then why is there still such a booming business in hair straightener and skin lightener? And what has made people feel like they need to buy these things? THE MEDIA, THAT'S WHAT, the fiction to which you say we should pay no heed.
Again you are projecting your own issues onto other people. I've also never heard of a mixed race person lightening their skin. If anything I've heard of very dark Blacks lightening their skin because it was considered ugly by some Blacks to be too Black. This had NOTHING to do with whites (at least in the context of Africa). The people who worked outside often turned darker (in the sun all day) so being very Black was associated with low class. This is true in the Caribbean as well. So sometimes the Blackest people bleached their skin to look like a lighter and more acceptable shade of Black. They were not trying to be white. If you already had substantial European, Asian, or Native ancestry you probably weren't as dark and therefore no need to do this.
As for straightening one's hair, what about white people who put their head in dredlocks or corn rolls or make their hair curly? Or dye their hair another color? Since when does changing one's hair imply tragedy? A dye job is a dye job. For that matter with all the plastic surgery, implants, and other fake things going on a big percentage of the public in general hates their physical appearance and want to look like something else or someone else. That's not necessarily tragic either.
I am one of "those" people and I can say there is nothing tragic about my or OUR lives, and I have lived in many communities of color which are not strictly limited to African Americans (Been to Brazil, Paraguay) been across the US, lived in immigrant communities from the Caribbean, etc.
Moderator cut: rude
As for what I know about the mixed heritage of communities of color, aside from spending my whole life among them (in various communities across the country and out of the country) and my specialty in history is that of Latin America and in a number of Latin American countries the majority identifies as MIXED. Speaking to a couple of Blacks in your town in the South does not make you an expert, my friend. The discrimination as whole in communities of color is against the Blackest Blacks. Not that justifies discrimination/stupidity/ignorance and not that everyone acts like that or things that way, but that's how that goes to the extent that there is discrimination on the basis of color/complexion.
Since this is about geneology, let's stick to facts and not deal with romance novels. And please do understand just because something is written in a book (especially a fiction novel) does not mean it is true or that it was ever true. Not everything written in pop culture influences the masses, either. Not every published book is even read by large numbers of people. Romanticized slave novels are making the NY Times best sellers list these days.
Last edited by in_newengland; 04-11-2014 at 10:37 AM..
To tell you the truth, we do have some historical records on the status of white/black mixtures in the US (outside of fiction). And yes, this relates to this thread.
Essentially, Howard University was originally for "colored" children. Not Black, but colored. As in White fathers sent their "colored" children there. There was a traditional of this. Strom Thurmond sent his mixed daughter to a black college. He didn't publically acknowledge her, but he paid for her education nonetheless (in an era were few Blacks got any education).
Howard University used to have brown paper bag tests. If you were darker than the Brown paper bag you need not apply to the university, and in the DC area there were a number of social clubs catering to ligher people.
The point is, during and after slavery despite what romance novels might say, the plight of mixed race people wasn't necessarily tragic. Obviously there was discrimination against them, but at least some of them got opportunities that weren't so readily available to Blacks as a whole. Many of the early NAACP people had European features and light skin (Thurgood Marshall, Rosa Parks, etc). The NAACP was accused of colorism as well, back in it's day.
If someone as light as Rosa had a child with a white person, the kid could very well look white and move to another town and who would know the difference? I don't know if many Black Americans thought this way, but I've heard of families in the Caribbean and Latin America basically breeding their families to be lighter as lightness was associated with social mobility. In short, if one of your mixed kids or grandkids eventually produced a white kid, that kid could join that society.
I was actually shocked to find out via DNA testing, that I am 100 percent northern European (mostly British/Irish). With my family having been in the US since the 1640s, I expected more of a mixture. Once I got over the surprise though, I thought it was a pretty cool family history. I am officially the whitest person I know - along with my parents and brother of course. LOL!
Wow, never seen that. You sure are white, lol.
Most people, it seems, are mutts. Especially here in America. There were only a few hundred thousand slaves brought to the US, now black people make up almost 13% of our population, of course many African Americans here are mixed. I don't think it matters that much anyway, what with the one drop rule and all.
My dad always used to say (when talking about people who were obsessively proud of their genealogy/heritage):
"You know, those folks have an awful lot of faith in a whole bunch of people they never even met."
If widespread genetic testing were ever to become the norm, there would be an awful lot of people getting some pretty big surprises ... Kind of like this guy:
My dad always used to say (when talking about people who were obsessively proud of their genealogy/heritage):
"You know, those folks have an awful lot of faith in a whole bunch of people they never even met."
If widespread genetic testing were ever to become the norm, there would be an awful lot of people getting some pretty big surprises ... Kind of like this guy:
No kidding. I tell people my ancestors must have been the least racist and xenophobic people to walk the earth. My DNA is so mutt'ish I don't know which way to turn. My ancestors were whores, they could care less what your race, religion, heritage, country of origin, they slept with EVERYONE!!
I like the one where Wanda Sykes learned she was a descendant of free african americans. Hehehehe.
DNA tests when it comes to racial admixture are not always accurate and can have different results depending on which company you decide to test with.
I remember a few years ago reading an article by a White woman from "The New York Times" who said she took a DNA test which revealed that she has 3 percent Sub Saharan African admixture. But when she tested with another DNA company, it revealed that she has no Sub Saharan African admixture at all.
Maybe the 3 percent was just statistical noise. Who knows which one was the real accurate result.
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