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Old 04-03-2014, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobilee View Post
This isn't really quite true. As someone who has studied border state Civil War history and is interested in "the south" I have seen some serious ill will connected with the war and "southernness" re the border states from some southerners. Most of that ill will though seems directed at West Virginia, although it was far more supportive of the Confederacy than Kentucky as recent research has shown. There is an interesting book called "Creating a Confederate Kentucky" from a few years ago that addresses post-war memorialization and public memory.
Fascinating. Again, my thought is that had Kentucky seceded it's modern day "southerness" would never be called into question.

Do you consider the ill will in an historical context or do you feel it exists in modern times?
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Old 04-03-2014, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Calera, AL
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Being Southern isn't necessarily defined by borders, it's more accurately defined by the people. Most Kentuckians have the same accent/dialect as those in TN, WV, NC et al, are staunchly conservative, Baptist by faith, etc. In other words, if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, then by golly, it must be a duck!

Heck, many residents of the southern 1/4th of Missouri and even extreme southern Illinois identify as Southern before they identify as Midwestern, because they are culturally far more similar to the South than they are to the remainder of their own states. In fact, when I was in the military, one of my coworkers had the thickest Southern accent I've ever heard, but he hailed from Williamson County, Illinois of all places.
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Old 04-03-2014, 02:52 PM
 
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I'm a non-Southerner, and I've been to Kentucky a couple of times.

To me, Kentucky seemed very Southern--lots of churches/crosses, deer antlers, smokers, rebel flags, Southern accents, jacked-up pickup trucks with exhaust stacks, hunting-related stickers on vehicles, camouflage-style clothing/accessories, young mothers/expecting mothers, etc.

Needless to say, I am very uncomfortable and out-of-element in KY, even more so than in the Atlanta area where I lived for six months a number of years ago.

In essence, it depends on your reference point. If by the "Deep South" you mean Atlanta or Orlando, then most of KY is going to seem a whole lot more Southern compared to those areas. However, even compared to places like AL and AR, I didn't think KY seemed all different. YMMV.
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
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KY wasn't very southern early on, very few slaves, settled by midwesterners, very few people supporting succession there. Right now, it is very southern in culture. The rural areas are culturally similar to the rest of the south, with NASCAR, guns, etc... but the scenery doesn't look very southern, no loblolly pines or live oaks.

Contrast that to Maryland, which had slavery, was very southern. They voted not to secede as well. Now, they are very northern in character. Baltimore reminds me of Philly or Boston in many ways. The scenery doesn't look very southern either, no loblolly pines or live oaks.

It could even be argued that Virginia, one of the "southernest" states during the Civil War, is now one of the least southern states because of NOVA.

Tennessee, which except for the part near Memphis was not very "southern" early on either (Nashville settled by midwesterners) but now it is very southern.

Florida was very very southern early on, maybe the most southern (around Panhandle and s. FL was unpopulated then) and now because of transplants from the northeast it isn't as southern anymore.

Things change over time.

States like AL and MS have remained Deep South through and through though. Northern LA is also very southern, Southern LA is both southern and not at the same time (Catholic instead of Baptists, etc...)
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:52 PM
 
Location: District of Columbia
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I always saw Kentucky as the "south light". When I lived there it did not feel like my old stomping grounds of the Carolinas, which I still consider very much the "deep south". Kentucky to me felt like a mix of 60% Southern, 25% Appalachian, and 15% Midwestern. Many of my colleagues had family in Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, and Illinois, or were from those states originally. Even when considering jobs most places that were on the radar 90% of the time (Excluding either Lexington, or Louisville) were Midwestern cities like; Columbus, Cincy, Indy, Louisville, or Chicago, and occasionally Atlanta.
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
Tennessee, which except for the part near Memphis was not very "southern" early on either (Nashville settled by midwesterners) but now it is very southern.
Nashville was settled by North Carolinians, and was in fact a North Carolina settlement for 17 years, between its founding and Tennessee's statehood.

East Tennessee was pro Union during the Civil War, and there were very few slaves there. Middle and West Tennessee had numerous large plantations and a high slave population.

While Tennessee was the last state to secede from the Union during the Civil War, that had less to do with it's "Southernness" and more to do with there being a deep ideological divide between East Tennessee (where a significant portion of the state population resided) and the rest of the state (where a significant portion of the money was -- because of slave labor and agricultural production). It's not that East Tennessee wasn't Southern, but Appalachia in general just simply wasn't well suited for plantation cash crops. Like today's divide between the Deep South and Upland South, both are Southern, and always have been. But culturally, there are some major differences.


I think most of the rest of your points are pretty spot on.
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Old 04-04-2014, 02:02 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCiVMngILEI
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Old 04-04-2014, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
Nashville was settled by North Carolinians, and was in fact a North Carolina settlement for 17 years, between its founding and Tennessee's statehood.

East Tennessee was pro Union during the Civil War, and there were very few slaves there. Middle and West Tennessee had numerous large plantations and a high slave population.

While Tennessee was the last state to secede from the Union during the Civil War, that had less to do with it's "Southernness" and more to do with there being a deep ideological divide between East Tennessee (where a significant portion of the state population resided) and the rest of the state (where a significant portion of the money was -- because of slave labor and agricultural production). It's not that East Tennessee wasn't Southern, but Appalachia in general just simply wasn't well suited for plantation cash crops. Like today's divide between the Deep South and Upland South, both are Southern, and always have been. But culturally, there are some major differences.


I think most of the rest of your points are pretty spot on.
Was it Knoxville settled by Midwesterners then?
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Old 04-04-2014, 02:42 PM
 
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Even rural Kentucky doesn't really feel Southern to me entirely. Rural Kentucky is missing the large black population that the true South has. In Kentucky you can drive for counties and not see any black people. You can't do that anywhere in Georgia except for maybe a handful of counties in the far north of the state. A lot of people think of Southern culture as a white culture and that just baffles me as the deep south has historically been 30-50% African American.

Edit: Sorry. I now see that posted in this thread months ago. Sorry for repeating myself.
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Old 04-05-2014, 02:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
Was it Knoxville settled by Midwesterners then?
Knoxville was settled much in the same was as Nashville -- by overmountain men from the east.

Most settlements in Tennessee were established in a progressively westward fashion, from explorers from the east (North Carolina, South Carolina, and Virginia). Nashville is sort of an outlier because it was established before a lot of the East Tennessee cities (barely).

To my knowledge, no major part of Tennessee was settled by Midwesterners. Bear in mind that Tennessee was already a state in 1796, and had been a part of North Carolina since just before the Revolutionary War.
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