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My manager used to live in SoCal for 12 years, but she's from the Hartford area. She moved back to CT and said that she likes it here better. She said that she had a hard time dating men in SoCal because they were just plain "stupid" or didn't appreciate the finer things in life, or economic achievement or educational attainment. She said that there were just "too many surfer dudes who were only concerned with making next month's rent." That would drive me crazy as well. I like educated, strong minded people who put effort to develop and retain strong friendships and mental connections. Apparently, the Northeast is good for that.
Yeah I hate the slacker attitude on the West Coast. Aside from tech there's not really a culture of creating things here at all.
First off, great post by 8to32characters regarding the regional character of the long-settled (smaller city/town/village) population of the Northeast.
I will also confirm from my experience nep321's description of the nature of Catholicism in the population, that is while on the surface the population seems religious, it is largely an ingrained cultural institution rather than an active spiritual phenomenon, a condition common in most 1st world 'Catholic' nations. The same can be said for most of the mainline protestants in the region. At least in my experience.
Additionally, such unconventional denominations and philosophies such as the Unitarians, Universalists, and Trancendentalists (Think R.W. Emerson and H.D. Thoreau) originated in New England, and there is a fair bit of Buddhism and alternative religion the region. There are enough ashrams and Buddhist monasteries in the Catskills of New York to distract the most indecisive spiritual dilletante in the Bay area through several reincarnations.
The whole religion thing in the Northeast is really a mixed bag, but the one thing that characterizes it the most is how low key it is. Only the most conservative Catholic and Orthodox Jewish communities budge the needle at all. Overall it is as much a non-issue in the Northeast as the West Coast in my opinion.
Finally, one thing that is not recognized by many outside the region is the plethora of artist communities and independent artist. While shadows of their former selves, the artist colonies were almost like communes and there are still a lot of artists drawn to practice in various towns and villages, particularly (and for obvious reasons) in the regions most scenic locales. As you can imagine, these towns tend to not be overwhelmingly conservative.
I think Urban New England is more conservative than Urban PNW, rural area's are a different story.
Culturally speaking, maybe. But because of the historic dominance of the Democratic machines in New England states, you don't see very many enclaves of "white ethnics" who vote Republican like you see in mid Atlantic areas like NYC and Philadelphia. And cities like Boston and Providence are far, far less white than Seattle and Portland, meaning they post very high margins for Democratic candidates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8to32characters
I'll say over and over and over again until I'm blue in the face--New Englanders largely vote for Democratic candidates because of historical, although primarily union-related, reasons, not because they're socially progressive in the same respect as voters on the West Coast. You would have no idea what I'm talking about because you've lived in the same small town in Connecticut for nearly your entire life and have never lived on the West Coast. You are less than qualified to make any sort of sweeping generalizations about the Pacific Northwest in particular.
Religion, explicitly Roman Catholicism, is far more pervasive in New England than on the West Coast, especially in Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island. Half the people who grew up in Southern New England attended Roman Catholic school, myself included, and everyone over a certain age--whether they go to church or not--was raised in the Catholic Church and received all of the sacraments. You're Italian-American and in your 30's like me, and I highly, highly doubt you weren't raised in the Roman Catholic Church.
Furthermore, at least in Rhode Island and Eastern Massachusetts, you can't drive two blocks without seeing a church, either. There are nowhere near as many churches in the Pacific Northwest as there are in New England.
A family member of mine is a former Roman Catholic monsignor, and he told me that, for years and years, Roman Catholic Governors in New England sought the advice and guidance of the Bishops/Cardinals, especially on social issues/stances such as abortion, same-sex marriage, euthanasia, etc. Gov. Don Carcieri of Rhode Island is a very recent example. I've never heard of such a thing on the West Coast. The South? Yes, they're probably counseled by they're whacky Evangelical pastors, but on the West Coast? No way, Jose.
And FWIW, my maternal great-grandfather is an Old Yankee from Voluntown, CT. If you try to tell me that Voluntown is not conservative because New London or Windsor County--or whatever [defunct] county Voluntown is in--voted for Obama in the last presidential election, then you are sadly, sadly mistaken.
The working-class support for Democrats in New England goes well before before unions were powerful. It's because the Democrats, in the late 19th century, courted Catholic immigrant voters in order to break the WASP Republican machine. The Protestant/Republican Catholic/Democrat split basically was retained in New England until around twenty years ago. You could see one of the last gasps in the 1990 Massachusetts gubernatorial election, where (socially liberal, economically moderate) William Weld won against Democrat John Silber, a man who accused gay rights groups of "homosexual recruitment," proposed cutting welfare benefits for married mothers, and equated Gloria Steinem with white supremacists.
Since that time, there's been a slow polarization of New England similar to elsewhere in the country. Republicans remain relatively moderate, but have gotten more conservative as time goes on, and the socially conservative strain in the local Democrats is almost dead (although there are plenty of economically conservative Democrats left in the "machine" states of Massachusetts and Rhode Island).
Culturally speaking, maybe. But because of the historic dominance of the Democratic machines in New England states, you don't see very many enclaves of "white ethnics" who vote Republican like you see in mid Atlantic areas like NYC and Philadelphia. And cities like Boston and Providence are far, far less white than Seattle and Portland, meaning they post very high margins for Democratic candidates.
Is this thread supposed to be cultural or political conservatism? And while Boston and Providence are much less white than Seattle or Portland, metro-wide the New England ones are slightly whiter and the metros contain some heavily Democratic voting and white areas. Urban PNW seems to get more of the activist liberal types.
Wow, the poll is neck and neck now. Yeah I wonder if it's even something you could compare. I think New England is more socialist but probably more traditional.
Which region do you think has more Sarah Palin or George Bush type people? From what I understand, New England is more socialist and traditional while the Pacific Northwest is more libertarian and socially liberal, so they're really not the same aside from the fact they are not Christian Conservatives.
The difference is old style Catholic democrat in the NE hence the democratic voting with more traditional values as you put it.
The difference is old style Catholic democrat in the NE hence the democratic voting with more traditional values as you put it.
True. The PNW has a lot more atheist conservatives too I'd say than New England. Out West in general it's pretty common to find people who aren't religious but vote Republican. Usually they consider themselves libertarians.
First off, great post by 8to32characters regarding the regional character of the long-settled (smaller city/town/village) population of the Northeast.
I will also confirm from my experience nep321's description of the nature of Catholicism in the population, that is while on the surface the population seems religious, it is largely an ingrained cultural institution rather than an active spiritual phenomenon, a condition common in most 1st world 'Catholic' nations. The same can be said for most of the mainline protestants in the region. At least in my experience.
Additionally, such unconventional denominations and philosophies such as the Unitarians, Universalists, and Trancendentalists (Think R.W. Emerson and H.D. Thoreau) originated in New England, and there is a fair bit of Buddhism and alternative religion the region. There are enough ashrams and Buddhist monasteries in the Catskills of New York to distract the most indecisive spiritual dilletante in the Bay area through several reincarnations.
The whole religion thing in the Northeast is really a mixed bag, but the one thing that characterizes it the most is how low key it is. Only the most conservative Catholic and Orthodox Jewish communities budge the needle at all. Overall it is as much a non-issue in the Northeast as the West Coast in my opinion.
Finally, one thing that is not recognized by many outside the region is the plethora of artist communities and independent artist. While shadows of their former selves, the artist colonies were almost like communes and there are still a lot of artists drawn to practice in various towns and villages, particularly (and for obvious reasons) in the regions most scenic locales. As you can imagine, these towns tend to not be overwhelmingly conservative.
Good post. It does seem like New England and upstate New York have a strong alternative religious presence. After all Woodstock took place there.
Politically more conservative- Pacific NW
Culturally more conservative-New England
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