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The St. Louis and Kansas City metros walk out with the majority of Missouri's population, and, from personal experience, I can tell you everything north of St. Louis is also solidly Midwestern, so I would say the proportion of the Missouri population that feels Southern is much smaller than the part that feels Midwestern. I'm less familiar with KC, but, when I visited, it seemed similar in that regard to St. Louis.
You won't find a person from St. Louis labeling themselves as Southern either. That's more reserved for the areas South of the metro, like the Boot Heel, Cape Girardeau, etc
You are incorrect with your assertion that it is 1/8 of the population I will elaborate further by adding up the total county populations in this southern dialect zone if you warrant it. Please don't act like you know more about my state than me.
The population of the region in question is 700,000-800,000. The population of the state of Missouri is 6 million. So between 1/9th and slightly more than 1/8th (if you are really generous with the population count).
Quite a bit closer to 1/8th than 1/4 any way you slice it, and a long, long way from the 80% of speakers in WV who have southern accents.
2. There are many similar maps, including a significant body of work that includes EVEN LESS of the state of Missouri and EVEN MORE of the state of WV in the southern dialect classification. That said, the "hobby" map in question is several orders of magnitude more accurate and more scientific than perhaps you realize. Which is of course the danger of making up your mind FIRST and then disregarding data that contradicts your opinion or limited personal experience.
3. I've done plenty of research of American Dialects. I'm no professional, but I do have an undergraduate degree in Linguistics from the University of Oregon. While American dialectical research was not my focus, I can assure you, you get more than just a layman's knowledge of the data and theories involved in American regional speech differences in the 4 years of study you put in while acquiring any degree in Linguistics from an American university, regardless of your focus.
1. I am confused as you have represented this link and the map associated with it as being scientific and not subjective or up for debate. You are incorrect in this assertion. I'm not sure if you were oblivious to this fact or truly knew this but were just using this to push some kind of agenda.
2. You have no idea about my amount of personal experience. How do you know how "limited" my experience may be? That is an assumption on your part. You know what happens when you assume?
3. Are you willing to retract your statement that the part of Missouri that lies in the southern accent zone is not just a "stastical anomaly"?
4. I'm going to go ahead and do the math and will get back to you with the true factual numbers. If the amount of Missouri lying in the official southern dialect zone is only 1/8 of the population I will issue you an apology based on my miscalcualtion. I will expect an apology from you as well if you are incorrect on your assertion.
5. I'm including a scientific map and not just a "hobby", map. You should use this from now on! Also I would like to say that much of Missouri is INFLUENCED by the southern dialect outside of this area.
Last edited by imbored198824; 01-06-2015 at 01:49 PM..
The population of the region in question is 700,000-800,000. The population of the state of Missouri is 6 million. So between 1/9th and slightly more than 1/8th (if you are really generous with the population count).
Quite a bit closer to 1/8th than 1/4 any way you slice it, and a long, long way from the 80% of speakers in WV who have southern accents.
I went ahead and did the math. Conservatively I got 1,201,256. If you included more border areas the number would go up substantially. Please don't just make up facts but do the actual research. This is 1/5 of the state population. If you include areas that are a mix of the two areas (southern dialect and South Midland dialect)...I guarantee you it would be well over 1/4 of the state population.
Last edited by imbored198824; 01-06-2015 at 01:53 PM..
5. I'm including a scientific map and not just a "hobby", map. You should use this from now on! Also I would like to say that much of Missouri is INFLUENCED by the southern dialect outside of this area.
I think you are conflating "hobby" and "unscientific". Again, I'll caution you, I have some level of linguistic training well above googling "southern accent map"...
And perhaps it bears mentioning that the "professional" map you posted (which is not the kind of map a professional linguist would use to map dialect shifts, btw) shows an even smaller area of Missouri as having a southern accent. Because its rare in Missouri. Even if it was 1/5 of the population, and its not by even the most generous interpretation, 1 in 5 is not common/prevalent/influential/normal. It is abnormal, irregular, peculiar, odd, and incongruent with the norm. Which is actually the definition of "anomaly". Sorry that bothers you so much.
I think you are conflating "hobby" and "unscientific". Again, I'll caution you, I have some level of linguistic training well above googling "southern accent map"...
And perhaps it bears mentioning that the "professional" map you posted (which is not the kind of map a professional linguist would use to map dialect shifts, btw) shows an even smaller area of Missouri as having a southern accent. Because its rare in Missouri. Even if it was 1/5 of the population, and its not by even the most generous interpretation, 1 in 5 is not common/prevalent/influential/normal. It is abnormal, irregular, peculiar, odd, and incongruent with the norm. Which is actually the definition of "anomaly". Sorry that bothers you so much.
The 1/5 of the population is a MINIMUM. It is most likely right around 1/4 of the state population. Maybe your statement would have been better put "the southern accent is an anomaly in parts of Missouri, but prevalent in about 1/4 of the state." You make absolutely no sense at all. That is like saying black people in the United States are an anomaly. They are less percentage wise than what are are debating about...so they must be according to your logic. Answer me this...are black people in anomaly in the United States? No use arguing with you. I can admit when I am wrong, apparently you can't. Have a good day Mr. linguistic scholar.
Last edited by imbored198824; 01-06-2015 at 04:12 PM..
Sure. I'm sure he took the time to actually go to the places where he put the line to see if it made sense or not.
Besides, the only part of your post I disagree with is the "statistical anomaly" part. 1/8th of the population isn't a large amount, but it is far from being considered an anomaly.
Some of my fraternity brothers at Mizzou with the biggest southern accents were from Moberly and Jeff City.
Some of my fraternity brothers at Mizzou with the biggest southern accents were from Moberly and Jeff City.
Must be some leftover influence from the Little Dixie days. I can't say I remember anyone from that area sounding that way from my college days. Interesting how things like that can occur in pockets, kind of like where I grew up.
So based on the poll, west virginia is more southern. Thanks everyone.
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