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The problem I have with Northeast though is the fact we group PA and even Maryland for that matter with states that we share little to nothing in common with. Can anyone really explain accurately what the hell Northeastern culture is for example? No I-95 corridor garbage I'm talking about culture you will find throughout all of the states in the region. Since we don't share the same linguistics, we don't share the same history, we don't share the same government traditions ie townhall meetings for example, we don't/didn't share the same industries which sets the attitudes and experiences for people living in there states, and a lot of beliefs in this area can really be out of whack with each other. More then a few people in New England believe the Mason Dixon line actually has real cultural meaning instead of just realizing it was to settle a land dispute.
I think at this point we're just talking in circles. There are absolutely similarities throughout the Northeast regarding all of the things you mentioned, and they have been discussed ad nauseum in this thread. The historical and cultural links are there, but you don't appear to want to acknowledge them.
I think at this point we're just talking in circles. There are absolutely similarities throughout the Northeast regarding all of the things you mentioned, and they have been discussed ad nauseum in this thread. The historical and cultural links are there, but you don't appear to want to acknowledge them.
I already went through all the "similarities" you listed and honestly there either extremely weak to non existent. I listed the differences which are much much much more vast then any similarities PA has to New England. Hell I showed more similarities between PA and the Midwest and PA and the Appalachia region then PA has with New England. PA is just a lot different then the very isolated region of New England.
Moving on… when I visited Victoria, BC I met a guy who lived in Boston for a few years and said he find that different from home. There's plenty of cultural differences you can find but for everyday life he didn't find them that big. Might depend on social circles.
The problem I have with Northeast though is the fact we group PA and even Maryland for that matter with states that we share little to nothing in common with. Can anyone really explain accurately what the hell Northeastern culture is for example? No I-95 corridor garbage I'm talking about culture you will find throughout all of the states in the region. Since we don't share the same linguistics, we don't share the same history, we don't share the same government traditions ie townhall meetings for example, we don't/didn't share the same industries which sets the attitudes and experiences for people living in there states, and a lot of beliefs in this area can really be out of whack with each other. More then a few people in New England believe the Mason Dixon line actually has real cultural meaning instead of just realizing it was to settle a land dispute.
The U.S. only has two broad cultural groupings - southern and non-southern. The Northeast, Midwest, and West are all geographic groupings which contain areas which aren't very similar by any metrics (cultural, political, social, religious) at all. There are attempts (like the "Nine Nations of North America") to define the northern cultural groupings, but they don't neatly fall along state, or even county lines.
I already went through all the "similarities" you listed and honestly there either extremely weak to non existent. I listed the differences which are much much much more vast then any similarities PA has to New England. Hell I showed more similarities between PA and the Midwest and PA and the Appalachia region then PA has with New England. PA is just a lot different then the very isolated region of New England.
New England is really not that isolated; that's a matter of perception. Also, the differences you listed far from created some exclusion of PA from other nearby states. Once again, you can list any number of differences between nearby states, but that doesn't change the fact that these are regions that have some degree of cultural/commercial connection. The fact that Pennsylvania has been established around much longer and interacted much longer with states to the North and East than those to the South and West is what makes the Northeast at least something of a cohesive unit (contrary to what you've noted, the Mason-Dixon line is, indeed, a major psychological boundary for people, including people in PA).
At any rate, I'd agree that eschaton has the right idea, here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton
The U.S. only has two broad cultural groupings - southern and non-southern. The Northeast, Midwest, and West are all geographic groupings which contain areas which aren't very similar by any metrics (cultural, political, social, religious) at all. There are attempts (like the "Nine Nations of North America") to define the northern cultural groupings, but they don't neatly fall along state, or even county lines.
Okay I point out the differences because people just automatically label PA as being Northeastern and actually think PA is just like Massachusetts and other New England states. Which is not the case and PA even differs a lot from NY and NJ and you had others from Massachusetts on here agreeing with me on this that the two states are quite different from each other. I used the Alabama reference saying PA has about as much as in common with Alabama as it does with Massachusetts which is to say very little to almost no connection whatsoever. Would you prefer I use Tennessee for a Southern reference and use Rhode Island for a New England reference next time to get my point across?
Almost all of the similarities listed where the I-95 corridor similarities and the US Census bureau definition of the region. PA isn't New York Philly does not dominate the state anywhere near how NYC dominates all of New York. All of these similarities are mostly about Philly while completing ignoring the rest of the state....even upstate NY as well for that matter in most of these type of discussions.
As far as the Census Bureau definition goes it's just how they grouped the states together at the time. Does it hold any real political and culture significance in the present? No it doesn't. In fact the EPA and federal reserve have Pennsylvania grouped a lot differently. Is the EPA and federal reserve wrong to do so? No they are not.
Now my Appalachian comment was to show if it wasn't for Pittsburgh most of Western PA would be extremely poor. Unlike West Virginia and Kentucky Pennsylvania was historically able to build up this region of the state. West Virginia never did historically and neither did Kentucky or other states for that matter. That is why Pittsburgh is referred to as the Paris of Appalachia because it is a success story and was and still is to my knowledge the most prosperous city in the region. New England doesn't have the Appalachia region running through it at all. Coal is something New England lacks and doesn't have that aspect in it's state history. Nor did you have a bunch of people from New England settling in Appalachia either like you had people from Pennsylvania doing.
There is a general American culture me and you will agree about that. However myself along with others would agree there are also a lot of differences which can't be ignored in which the op is wrong thinking the country is a lot more similar everywhere then it truly is.
I am aware of how you used the reference. My point is, PA has much more in common with any northeastern state than it does Alabama, or Tennessee. You seem to think that because PA is listed as northeastern, it is somehow being slighted. It is a grouping of states, that's all. They all have many similarities, and many differences. I still think the OP has a decent point. Anywhere in America, still feels "American", whether you are in PA or Alabama. Sure they are very different, but still very much "American". In that regard, they are very similar, if you get what I'm saying.
Birmingham doesn't dominate Alabama like Atlanta dominates Georgia, are you going to argue that those two states are dramatically different? What about comparisons between upstate New York and those rural areas of PA? Are they so drastically different?
Of course there are many differences, even within states (think NY or FL or CA), but you are still ignoring or dismissing any similarities. See Below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984
I already went through all the "similarities" you listed and honestly there either extremely weak to non existent. I listed the differences which are much much much more vast then any similarities PA has to New England. Hell I showed more similarities between PA and the Midwest and PA and the Appalachia region then PA has with New England. PA is just a lot different then the very isolated region of New England.
Let me turn this around and ask why you or anyone else for that matter is so obessed with PA being a north eastern state? The reason why I point out PA isn't a northeastern state is because it lacks much of anything in common with New England. Also most of PA is more inline with MD and NJ not NY. Of all Pennsylvania's neighbors New York and PA might actually be the furthest apart. I'm saying this as having been stationed at Fort Drum NY for 3 years that upstate NY is actually more similar to New England then PA. In regards to NYC it's closest to CT and NJ and not Pennsylvania. If people think I'm pointing out differences between PA and New England because of personal politics or whatever it's not. In fact I've stated before that I view PA being closer to Maryland which is a very blue state then it's other neighbors. I point this out because my state constantly gets lumped together with a bunch of other states we honestly have very little to nothing in common with ie New England.
No one is obsessed with PA being a Northeastern state because it IS a Northeastern state. The end.
New England is not the only part of the Northeast. NJ, which you say PA is more in line with, is in the Northeast. Many would also say Maryland is nowadays.
The U.S. only has two broad cultural groupings - southern and non-southern. The Northeast, Midwest, and West are all geographic groupings which contain areas which aren't very similar by any metrics (cultural, political, social, religious) at all. There are attempts (like the "Nine Nations of North America") to define the northern cultural groupings, but they don't neatly fall along state, or even county lines.
I'll give the nine nations of North America credit for try at least trying to distinguish the differences regardless if anyone agrees with it or not. The current regional groupings don't even attempt any such thing which is what I find annoying and people even in the "Northeast" not questioning it. I'll give attempts at defining the midatlantic region along the Baltimore/DC corridor and surrounding areas credit for at least attempting this as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino
New England is really not that isolated; that's a matter of perception. Also, the differences you listed far from created some exclusion of PA from other nearby states. Once again, you can list any number of differences between nearby states, but that doesn't change the fact that these are regions that have some degree of cultural/commercial connection. The fact that Pennsylvania has been established around much longer and interacted much longer with states to the North and East than those to the South and West is what makes the Northeast at least something of a cohesive unit (contrary to what you've noted, the Mason-Dixon line is, indeed, a major psychological boundary for people, including people in PA).
At any rate, I'd agree that eschaton has the right idea, here:
New England is extremely isolated. The whole region is behind the state of New York. It's not like here in Pennsylvania which is bordered by states that are quite different from each other ie West Virginia and New York or Delaware and Ohio. We are called the Keystone state for a reason. Unlike New England Pennsylvania isn't isolated from the rest of the nation behind a single state.
As far as the seclusion goes PA is anything but secluded and has similarities with all of it's neighbors which differ a lot from each other. Even different areas of the country. However we don't border New England, we don't share any culture with New England that we don't share with the rest of the original 13 colonies.
Where the hell in PA are you supposedly from? Your Mason Dixon statement shows extreme ignorance of someone that has never lived within a 100 miles of the Mason Dixon line on either side. The Mason Dixon line isn't the Berlin Wall for Christ Sake. No on in Chambersburg PA, Hagerstown MD, Harrisburg PA, Frederick MD, Martinsburg WV, Winchester VA, Batlimore MD, York PA, Lancaster PA and or even the entire state of Delaware for that matter thinks the Mason Dixon line has any real meaning. So were are you actually from? Because your not originally from PA if you believe that. Which is not surprising since you thought PA has a big Libertarian streak which is pretty much nonexistant in the state.
New England is extremely isolated. The whole region is behind the state of New York. It's not like here in Pennsylvania which is bordered by states that are quite different from each other ie West Virginia and New York or Delaware and Ohio. We are called the Keystone state for a reason. Unlike New England Pennsylvania isn't isolated from the rest of the nation behind a single state.
Being a three hour drive from the largest city in the country isn't exactly extreme isolation.
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