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I already went through all the "similarities" you listed and honestly there either extremely weak to non existent. I listed the differences which are much much much more vast then any similarities PA has to New England. Hell I showed more similarities between PA and the Midwest and PA and the Appalachia region then PA has with New England. PA is just a lot different then the very isolated region of New England.
From a National perspective, Pennsylvania is more similar to New England then you realize. Take the system of local government for instance. The entire state of Pennsylvania is covered with them, similar to Massachusetts. This is not how most states around the country are organized.
Pennsylvania is definitely one of the outliers of the Northeast. Which should not be surprising given her location. But she still has many similarities, especially with New York and New Jersey.
Consider State Land Ownership which I posted on another thread a while back. These figures do not show Federal land ownership but only State land ownership --- so we can see the conservation efforts that the states made for themselves.
Mid-Atlantic Northeast
1. New York - 11,000,0000 acres (36% of the entire state)
2. Pennsylvania - 3,656,000 acres (12.75%)
3. New Jersey - 739,000 acres (15.58)
Nearby States
1. West Virginia - 449,000 acres (2.91%)
2. Ohio - 421,000 acres (1.61%)
3. Virginia - 346,000 acres (1.37%)
You can see that the 3 "nearby states" have conserved less state land then the Mid-Atlantic states. Even New Jersey, despite being much smaller then the others, has bought up more land for conservation. And its not because that Ohio and the Virginias are unusual, its because the 3 Mid-Atlantic states just bought up a lot more land for the public then most other states. They have taken a similar approach to conservation issues that is different from many other states in the USA.
No one is obsessed with PA being a Northeastern state because it IS a Northeastern state. The end.
It will be the end when people stop making statements like this one without knowing what they are talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415
New England is not the only part of the Northeast. NJ, which you say PA is more in line with, is in the Northeast. Many would also say Maryland is nowadays.
Like I stated before if you want to group PA with New Jersey and New York because of similarities fine. When you group it with New England as well you lose all similarities which makes the "Northeast" as a regional identity useless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileBayBlues
I am aware of how you used the reference. My point is, PA has much more in common with any northeastern state than it does Alabama, or Tennessee.
You know people keep saying this...but when pushed on it they can't reply why it is. Instead they just get angry about it and act like I'm committing outright treason for some reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileBayBlues
You seem to think that because PA is listed as northeastern, it is somehow being slighted. It is a grouping of states, that's all.
When people try to say PA is similar or worse very similar to New England it is being slighted as well as New England for that matter because they are very different from each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileBayBlues
They all have many similarities, and many differences. I still think the OP has a decent point. Anywhere in America, still feels "American", whether you are in PA or Alabama. Sure they are very different, but still very much "American". In that regard, they are very similar, if you get what I'm saying.
On this I'll agree with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileBayBlues
Birmingham doesn't dominate Alabama like Atlanta dominates Georgia, are you going to argue that those two states are dramatically different? What about comparisons between upstate New York and those rural areas of PA? Are they so drastically different?
To be honest I don't really care since I'm not from and don't live in Alabama or Georgia. As far as upstate New York and rural PA yeah it's surprising how different they are from each other outside of the Twin Tiers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileBayBlues
Of course there are many differences, even within states (think NY or FL or CA), but you are still ignoring or dismissing any similarities. See Below.
Not really Duderino listed things like ancestry even though if you look at an ancestry map of the US PA is a picture perfect mirror of the Midwest. Honestly from his Mason Dixon and Libertarian political comments he doesn't seem to know what he is talking about.
New England is extremely isolated. The whole region is behind the state of New York. It's not like here in Pennsylvania which is bordered by states that are quite different from each other ie West Virginia and New York or Delaware and Ohio. We are called the Keystone state for a reason. Unlike New England Pennsylvania isn't isolated from the rest of the nation behind a single state.
All of New England is far closer to PA than the vast majority of the South or Midwest. That's the bottom line. It's not isolated for PA at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984
Where the hell in PA are you supposedly from? Your Mason Dixon statement shows extreme ignorance of someone that has never lived within a 100 miles of the Mason Dixon line on either side. The Mason Dixon line isn't the Berlin Wall for Christ Sake. No on in Chambersburg PA, Hagerstown MD, Harrisburg PA, Frederick MD, Martinsburg WV, Winchester VA, Batlimore MD, York PA, Lancaster PA and or even the entire state of Delaware for that matter thinks the Mason Dixon line has any real meaning. So were are you actually from? Because your not originally from PA if you believe that. Which is not surprising since you thought PA has a big Libertarian streak which is pretty much nonexistant in the state.
LOL. So my PA credentials are now questioned because we disagree? I didn't realize that everyone from the same state had to agree with each other...
I'm from the Philadelphia area, and I can guarantee you that people in the area are MUCH more aligned with NJ and NY, and to a lesser extent, DE, than anywhere south or west of the state. The Lehigh Valley is very similar in this orientation.
Now that I do in fact live in MD, I obviously know there's not a "Berlin Wall" between the states, but there is still a historical divide between the North and South that I think is in the back of the minds of many people. I'm honestly not trying to exaggerate here.
There are also plenty of libertarian-minded people in PA (people who are more socially liberal but fiscally conservative). They just aren't part of the political leadership in the state. You should well know that PA is made up of a political tapestry.
North Carolina is not 100% similar to Alabama so I think South is too broad a categorization and we should come up with a new one. Perhaps we could be more specific and say Gulf vs Southeast? Let's get rid of "South" it's meaningless, there are too many differences. I think it's crazy that North Carolina and Alabama are even claimed to be in the same region, people clearly know nothing.
You remind me of a lot of people here in Alabama. "How dare you say we are similar to Mississippi!!!" You point out differences to prove you're right, but then you completely ignore the similarities or dismiss them as irrelevant or say they are overestimated. Parts of PA are very similar to New England, parts aren't. PA has much more in common with New England than the south, despite you claiming it is as different to Mass as it is to Alabama.
The point of the thread isn't necessarily that everywhere is the EXACT same, as you seem to think, but that you can tell, regardless of where you are in America, that it is America. In that regard, everywhere is similar.
I was going to say something very similar. From the perspective of people outside the region, cwa's arguments look borderline silly. I will concede that there is a different cultural imprint between the idealistic and moral English New England and the mercantile and individualist Dutch and German New York, NJ, and PA.
That said, I feel like a wolf watching a whitetail deer arguing he is nothing like a mule deer.
All of New England is far closer to PA than the vast majority of the South or Midwest. That's the bottom line. It's not isolated for PA at all.
LOL. So my PA credentials are now questioned because we disagree? I didn't realize that everyone from the same state had to agree with each other...
No your PA credentials are in question because of your lack of knowledge about the state and especially your clueless statement about the mason dixon line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino
I'm from the Philadelphia area, and I can guarantee you that people in the area are MUCH more aligned with NJ and NY, and to a lesser extent, DE, than anywhere south or west of the state. The Lehigh Valley is very similar in this orientation.
Now that I live in MD, I obviously know there's there's not a "Berlin Wall" between the states, but there is still a historical divide between the North and South that I think is in the back of the minds of many people.
No that is just in your own mind and something people who never lived anywhere near the line believe. That's why you have people from New England and the South constantly arguing over with the North and South begin and end using that stupid line with people from PA and Maryland just shaking there heads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino
There are also plenty of libertarian-minded people in PA (people who are more socially liberal but fiscally conservative). They just aren't part of the political leadership in the state. You should well know that PA is made of up a political tapestry, and
PA is dominated by moderate republicans and blue dog democrats we aren't the Western United States where libertarian ideology has a strong foothold.
North Carolina is not 100% similar to Alabama so I think South is too broad a categorization and we should come up with a new one. Perhaps we could be more specific and say Gulf vs Southeast? Let's get rid of "South" it's meaningless, there are too many differences. I think it's crazy that North Carolina and Alabama are even claimed to be in the same region, people clearly know nothing.
Thanks for proving my point about people getting mad when they can't come up with similarities.
I was going to say something very similar. From the perspective of people outside the region, cwa's arguments look borderline silly. I will concede that there is a different cultural imprint between the idealistic and moral English New England and the mercantile and individualist Dutch and German New York, NJ, and PA.
That said, I feel like a wolf watching a whitetail deer arguing he is nothing like a mule deer.
There's clearly some type of agenda this poster has. The arguments look silly to people INSIDE the region, too.
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