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Yes. In Minn., anyone under the age of 21 has a red box around their license photo that reads "UNDER 21". It could just as easily say "NO LIQUOR" The law would have more holes than Swiss cheese, but the law we have now does too. At least this one would be supported by logic and reasoning.
What I meant is would it be illegal for you to provide alcohol to a friend in your home if they have the "indicator"? Or only illegal to provide alcohol to the people with indicators in bars/restaurants/stores?
Regardless...everyone with a DWI should be required to wear one of those ankle bracelets that detects alcohol consumption and they should also have breathalyzers (ignition interlocks) permanently installed on their cars.
Still, the drinking age needs to be 21. 18 year olds are far too immature to drink.
Maybe 18-year-olds wouldn't be far too immature to drink if we stopped tolerating them being and stopped raising them to be far too immature to drink. We treat 18-year-olds as far too immature to drink, and surprise, they end up being far too immature to drink. We've delayed adulthood, and then we turn around and use the predictable results as an excuse to keep delaying adulthood. Am I the only one to whom this makes no sense?
Maybe 18-year-olds wouldn't be far too immature to drink if we stopped tolerating them being and stopped raising them to be far too immature to drink. We treat 18-year-olds as far too immature to drink, and surprise, they end up being far too immature to drink. We've delayed adulthood, and then we turn around and use the predictable results as an excuse to keep delaying adulthood. Am I the only one to whom this makes no sense?
Science proves that the human brain is not fully developed at 18. Kids at 18 are growing up FAST and their brains are going through very rapid development at that age....it's the most terrible age to suddenly introduce alcohol (and probably also the worst age to suddenly introduce the whole slew of new rights 18 yo's are given). TONS of growth seems to happen between 18 and 21...far more than between 15 and 18 even.
Even the most responsible 18 year old still has a brain that is not fully developed.
Responsibility may have something to do with it...but it's not all of it.
Plus what about all the 18 year olds in high school? Would giving them LEGAL access (I know they have access to it already) to alcohol really be a good thing to do? That would give FOURTEEN year old freshmen extremely easy access by default.
Delaying adulthood may not be such a terrible thing given that we live longer now than we did when adulthood came earlier. That's another thing to consider.
18 year olds have never been fully grown. I think it may be more easily seen nowadays because there are far more choices in the world and it is more difficult for young people to make the right choices. In the old days, they didn't have too many choices at all.
Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 02-24-2009 at 08:48 AM..
An 18-year-old can buy a firearm, but he can't buy a six-pack of Bud. Which is more dangerous?
An 18 year old can buy a rifle or shotgun, but not a handgun. Minimum age for a handgun is 21.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
An 18-year-old can sign contracts, have credit cards, be prosecuted as anadult, and any number of other things. But she can't be allowed to have a glass of chardonnay?
In my state (and in 11 others)...a 17 year old is prosecuted as an adult. That's right...17 is NOT a juvenile and every 17 year old who commits a crime is taken to adult jail, goes through adult court, placed on adult probation, in adult prison, etc. Does that mean a 17 year old should legally be allowed to drink?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
Here's the thing. We have, as a society, really done an unpardonable thing to young adults in this country: We have pushed back the age when they are considered to be adults. At age 18, it used to be considered that you were a man, and could shoulder the responsibilities of being a man. Today, most people believe that adolescence ends around the age of 26. So when an 18-year-old acts unwisely, we really take on part of the blame by not having any expectations of him in the first place.
Actually, before the 1970's, the age of majority for almost all purposes was 21. Adolescence should end earlier than 26...but even the most responsible 18 year old is still a teenager and an adolescent. Also, what about 18 year old HS students, you really think they are not kids?
I voted yes. Eighteen-year-ols are over in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting and dying for their country, and yet they can't drink legally? Please. Besides, anyone who thinks that the laws keep them from drinking seriously need a reality check. BTW, I'm 62.
Science proves that the human brain is not fully developed at 18. Kids at 18 are growing up FAST and their brains are going through very rapid development at that age....it's the most terrible age to suddenly introduce alcohol (and probably also the worst age to suddenly introduce the whole slew of new rights 18 yo's are given). TONS of growth seems to happen between 18 and 21...far more than between 15 and 18 even.
Even the most responsible 18 year old still has a brain that is not fully developed.
Responsibility may have something to do with it...but it's not all of it.
Plus what about all the 18 year olds in high school? Would giving them LEGAL access (I know they have access to it already) to alcohol really be a good thing to do? That would give FOURTEEN year old freshmen extremely easy access by default.
Delaying adulthood may not be such a terrible thing given that we live longer now than we did when adulthood came earlier. That's another thing to consider.
18 year olds have never been fully grown. I think it may be more easily seen nowadays because there are far more choices in the world and it is more difficult for young people to make the right choices. In the old days, they didn't have too many choices at all.
Sorry. Not buying your "most terrible age to suddenly introduce alcohol" argument because it presumes that it has to be introduced "suddenly" at that age or at any age. It ain't so.
When I was in high school, a friend of mine did a foreign exchange tour in Germany for a semester. When he got back, he regaled us with stories about how they served beer at high school functions and how his host parents gave him beer or wine at every meal, even though they weren't supposed to because he was American. Of course, us stupid American high school kids were like, "whoa dude, I bet you got wasted every day you were there, man! That musta been cool!" He got so used to their cultural approach to alcohol that he was just as baffled by our assumptions as we were by his response, which was basically this: "Uhm, no, I didn't really ever get drunk. I would have been looked at like I had just called everyone in the room an a-hole if I had gotten drunk." Their social stigma is almost the exact opposite of ours: drink what you will at any age starting with pubescence, but intoxication is not tolerated; whereas we tolerate intoxication as long as you're over 21 and not driving.
And Germany isn't unique in this regard. Many cultures around the world introduce alcohol at a much younger age than 18, and as long as they introduce it gradually and responsibly, the kids grow into it responsibly. Introducing it "suddenly" as we do in the U.S. is a huge part of the problem we have in our culture. Introducing it "suddenly" at any age is stupid, whether that age is 30 or 21 or 18.
I'm also not buying your argument about 18-year-olds passing it on to younger high-schoolers. Again, if you treat adolescents like children, they will behave like children, which doesn't bode well for when they have to confront adult decisions about things like alcohol.
And this has been my argument all along throughout this thread. Like I said way upstream, there's nothing about turning either 21 or 18 that magically prepares a person to deal with alcohol for the first time in their life. And that's why alcohol needs to be introduced GRADUALLY rather than suddenly. And letting them loose in bars and liquor stores at either 21 or 18 simply does not prepare them for how to deal with alcohol in an adult manner.
It's perfectly silly how our society waits until our children are adults to begin preparing them for adulthood. The preparation needs to begin before they're adults so that they actually behave like adults once they reach adulthood.
Last edited by Drover; 02-25-2009 at 01:08 AM..
Reason: spelling & grammar & stuff
What I meant is would it be illegal for you to provide alcohol to a friend in your home if they have the "indicator"? Or only illegal to provide alcohol to the people with indicators in bars/restaurants/stores?
Regardless...everyone with a DWI should be required to wear one of those ankle bracelets that detects alcohol consumption and they should also have breathalyzers (ignition interlocks) permanently installed on their cars.
Still, the drinking age needs to be 21. 18 year olds are far too immature to drink.
Of course it would be illegal. The liquor you would give them would intoxicate the same as anything they got at a bar, and they obviously can't handle it.
NO they're not. That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. 18 year olds are teenagers...get it eightTEEN. They are very clearly adolescents.
Then how do you feel about the child soldiers going and fighting our wars for us? I also challenge the idea that somebody can't responsibly drink on account of them being an "adolescent". There are still quite a few accepted forms of discrimination is this country. Fat people get it all the time, and nobody really cares. Old people get fired and are forcibly retired. Young people have to listen to your crap about how they are all feeble minded and inmature. It has alot less to do with reality than peoples' sentimentality in regards to childhood.
Science proves that the human brain is not fully developed at 18. Kids at 18 are growing up FAST and their brains are going through very rapid development at that age....it's the most terrible age to suddenly introduce alcohol (and probably also the worst age to suddenly introduce the whole slew of new rights 18 yo's are given). TONS of growth seems to happen between 18 and 21...far more than between 15 and 18 even.
Even the most responsible 18 year old still has a brain that is not fully developed.
Responsibility may have something to do with it...but it's not all of it.
Plus what about all the 18 year olds in high school? Would giving them LEGAL access (I know they have access to it already) to alcohol really be a good thing to do? That would give FOURTEEN year old freshmen extremely easy access by default.
Delaying adulthood may not be such a terrible thing given that we live longer now than we did when adulthood came earlier. That's another thing to consider.
18 year olds have never been fully grown. I think it may be more easily seen nowadays because there are far more choices in the world and it is more difficult for young people to make the right choices. In the old days, they didn't have too many choices at all.
Science has proved alot of ****. It has proved that the shape of one's skull makes them inferior. Science should always be critiqued, and my bull**** meter just went off.
How many high school seniors do you know that spend time with 14 year-olds? Plus, there are hundreds of thousands of homeless people who are more than willing to buy all of our beloved children all of the booze, cigarettes and porn their underdeveloped hearts desire.
Lastly, this generation has a shorter life-expectancy than their parents. Maybe we should be debating a 17 year old drinking age.
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