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What we can do is get rid of pet stores! They will sell to anyone, Pet store animals are extremely neglected, and the breeders/puppy or kitty mills that sell to pet stores are EXTREMELY abusive..
Real breeders pay careful attention to who they sell to and adopting from a shelter is like adopting a baby.. They are very picky about who adopts.
getting rid of pet stores will REALLY help.
This belongs at the state and municipal levels of government to regulate. If pet stores had to account from whom they purchased the animals it would go a long way to reducing/eliminating these puppy mills and other unscrupulous pet breeders, IMO. So few pet stores actually sell dogs and cats anymore that I think the rescue organizations have done a really good job at educating the public that their source for the pets are animal mills. Perhaps the elimination of sales of invasive species at the federal level. Look at what happens with people release pet pythons and the problems in Florida to the eco-system.
You assume only dogs bred for show are healthy.
As long as dogs are bred responsibily, not over bred, not bred if they would pass on health issues and owners lined up prior to breeding there is no need for them to be show dogs or have to conform to specific physical standards. As has been mentioned, some people are quite happy with companion mutts. IMO the bigger proplem with overpopulation is many ppl dont intentionally breed for profit but have not been educated or are not responsible enough to have their pets spay/neutered and continue to have unwanted litters.
Personally I dont know anyone who has purchased an animal from a puppymill, petstore or craigslist. Most of my friends rescue from shelters or free pet adds. If they want a pure bred they usually purchase it from and individual that occasionally breeds their family dogs.
I know one couple that bought a dog $450.00 from a "reputable breeder" about the same time I aquired (free) my pitbull from a byb that was going to shoot the remaining pups. Both dogs were diagnosed with ectopic ureter. Other than that my dog is healthy and has not had to see the vet for health issues. Their dog has had two knee surgeries, constant vet visits for ear infections and skin infections.
Doesn't sound like a reputable breeder to me...for one thing, a reputable breeder puppy is never going to be $450 - it will be more in the $800 to $1,000 range because the OFA registry and tests are not the cheapest in the world. A reputable breeder would never breed a dog knowing that it would have luxating patellas or allergies. You definitely know when you get a dog from a reputable breeder...and you can find that breeder in the OFA registry website. You can search by kennel name. If you can't find them, they have other motives. Just like I said before, rarely do any people do that sort of testing on their mixed breeds or pound puppies so there is no proof that shelter dogs are any healthier. There just isn't enough data to support the case either way.
I hope you called the police, animal control, the ASPCA, and HSUS on that jerk that was threatening to shoot those puppies. If not, he is probably still having litters.
Well, you are in puppymill territory so I guess you would think that breeding companion animals is really a high priority. The only reputable breeders in my books are those that show and breed to the best of the AKC/Parent Club standards or those that breed Service dogs. Breeding just for companions is irresponsible and all about making money. Although Showing dogs is not your typical sport there are great people out there that do it responsibly. Money talks for most breeders - but not the reputable ones. One day, irresponsible breeders will be held accountable, will not make money, and the myriad of puppymills in your state and a few others will cease to exist.
With the exception of the service dogs which I fully understand the need for, the premise for breeding "just" for show sounds very "hoity, toity" to me.
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Originally Posted by Alley01
Doesn't sound like a reputable breeder to me...for one thing, a reputable breeder puppy is never going to be $450 - it will be more in the $800 to $1,000 range because the OFA registry and tests are not the cheapest in the world. A reputable breeder would never breed a dog knowing that it would have luxating patellas or allergies. You definitely know when you get a dog from a reputable breeder...and you can find that breeder in the OFA registry website. You can search by kennel name. If you can't find them, they have other motives. Just like I said before, rarely do any people do that sort of testing on their mixed breeds or pound puppies so there is no proof that shelter dogs are any healthier. There just isn't enough data to support the case either way.
I hope you called the police, animal control, the ASPCA, and HSUS on that jerk that was threatening to shoot those puppies. If not, he is probably still having litters.
What would the HSUS do? Threaten a press conference?
There are plenty of dogs to go around without them being bred for the purpose of companionship. Purebreds have a bad reputation for people like you that think it is okay to breed for just companionship. Health should be the top of that list and following the standard. If you don't, you have no business breeding the money pits that so many people get themselves into because they like the convenience of going to a petstore or looking at craigslist to get a pet. By only keeping breeding to the responsible people, I can guarantee you that dogs will still be available as not all dogs in a litter are going to be show quality - although it can happen, atleast breeders hope it does!
For people like me????
Personal opinions aside, I have had a purebred that my parents got from a RESPONSIBLE breeder. He was well cared for and very healthy, thank-you very much. Other people had asked to use our dog for breeding but my pop said, "nope".
I don't know about you - but I would rather have a healthy animal than one with a myriad of problems all because I "needed" a companion. Your argument is falling flat.
Huh(?)
My argument? Didn't think I was. My point, a companion can be healthy. They don't all have to be "show" dogs, which I thought was your argument.
I spent less money getting a puppy from a reputable breeder than most people who buy from craigslist or a petstore. The only difference is that they continue to have to pay for their dog and medical care. I don't. I also have a pound puppy who came from a kill shelter that had a Parvo Outbreak and really always seems to have Parvo outbreaks...there are plenty of dogs to go around for everyone...and I wish that they were all healthy from the beginning rather than having the odds of a lottery ticket as to whether they will be healthy or not. Maybe I set my expectations entirely too high...
I never once acquired any of my dogs off from Craigslist or a petstore.
All of my dogs that I've acquired in adult hood have been through the rescues, and they are healthy and happy. So what if they're not show dogs.
Doesn't sound like a reputable breeder to me...for one thing, a reputable breeder puppy is never going to be $450 - it will be more in the $800 to $1,000 range because the OFA registry and tests are not the cheapest in the world. A reputable breeder would never breed a dog knowing that it would have luxating patellas or allergies.
You stated if only show dogs were allowed to breed there would be plenty dogs to go around and that many middle class and poor show dogs. Do you really believe middle class and poor and elderly ppl can afford to pay $1000 for a pet?
Now with all the OFA, CERF, etc. testing there are still purebred animals born with defects. These are the animals that would be culled and sold to those who could only afford 450 as opposed to 1000?
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Just like I said before, rarely do any people do that sort of testing on their mixed breeds or pound puppies so there is no proof that shelter dogs are any healthier. There just isn't enough data to support the case either way.
I dont believe it is necessary to do hundreds of dollars of health testing on every dog. Shelter dogs (mixed breeds) generally do not have the genetic defects associated with selective breeding so it isn’t a necessity to have genetic testing done to rule out presence or absence of recessive alleles.
[QUOTE]How many of us with Mutt's health test? I am probably one of the few. My Purebred has his OFA, BAER, and CERF testing done regularly. I noticed that in the OFA database, mixed breeds were few and far between so I decided to do the same testing with her. It isn't cheap but definitely worth having the data[/quote]
Why would you have OFA, CERF and BAER testing done on a regular basis? Dosent the initial testing clear the animal? Why would you even have the test done on an mixed breed or any animal you have no intention of breeding? So what would you do if one of these tests was positive in your dog?
You stated if only show dogs were allowed to breed there would be plenty dogs to go around and that many middle class and poor show dogs. Do you really believe middle class and poor and elderly ppl can afford to pay $1000 for a pet?
Now with all the OFA, CERF, etc. testing there are still purebred animals born with defects. These are the animals that would be culled and sold to those who could only afford 450 as opposed to 1000?
I dont believe it is necessary to do hundreds of dollars of health testing on every dog. Shelter dogs (mixed breeds) generally do not have the genetic defects associated with selective breeding so it isn’t a necessity to have genetic testing done to rule out presence or absence of recessive alleles.
[QUOTE]How many of us with Mutt's health test? I am probably one of the few. My Purebred has his OFA, BAER, and CERF testing done regularly. I noticed that in the OFA database, mixed breeds were few and far between so I decided to do the same testing with her. It isn't cheap but definitely worth having the data
Why would you have OFA, CERF and BAER testing done on a regular basis? Dosent the initial testing clear the animal? Why would you even have the test done on an mixed breed or any animal you have no intention of breeding? So what would you do if one of these tests was positive in your dog?[/quote]
I am all for rescues and shelter dogs - I just have a problem with people buying purebreds from those that could care less about health. You can get great dogs through shelters for a lot cheaper so if you can't afford a tested dog, there are always options. The shelter I work with has a waiting list for certain breeds and through our efforts to assist HSUS and other animal welfare agencies stopping dog fighting operations, puppymills and hoarding situations, they usually have no issues finding homes. Even if they do, we have switched over to being a no-kill shelter and can keep dogs, cats, and many other animals for as long as it takes.
The OFA database has several tests and some are preliminary so they require those tests to be done more often. Hearing is done once, CERF is done on a regular basis and Patallea, hips, etc. are done on a preliminary basis with puppies and then after age 1, they are done on a yearly basis because those defects can be progressive. If you go to the website, they share all that information, the most common tests for certain breeds, and which ones are most abnormal. There are also thyroid tests. But, they also provide much needed data to find the causes of certain issues. People mention concerns about inbreeding, line breeding, etc. and the sooner that a reputable breeder finds out that their line contains a serious defect, the faster they can spay/neuter a dog and eliminate them from the breeding program. Granted, I am making this a lot simpler than it really is. Genetics is not an easy thing if anyone else has studied it, dog genetics is exhausting but there are many breeders out there that know a ton about it. Cornell and other Veterinary schools often have seminars on it.
For anyone with a regular pet, the tests provide data - a wealth of data. Most of us don't breed our dogs, so if their results aren't favorable, it provides information that geneticists, and other scientists need to help find causes for defects, cures for defects, and effective treatments for defects. It isn't just bones, eyes, and hearing. Look at the site and you will see exactly how extensive it is. If paying for all that testing with my mutt and my purebred (who I do not breed) helps just one dog or finds one cure, it is worth it to me. I get my fosters tested as well and submit their results for the database. It really helps us understand what problems are occurring most commonly in breeds. People tell me certain breeds are apt to have certain problems but often the data doesn't point to that.
I love research and I love statistics because without it, progress in so many fields could not be made. Mixed breeds do have some health concerns but without the appropriate data, and people submitting that data (like their dog has hip displasia, diabetes, blindness, etc.) the only person that knows is you. If you think your vet is submitting that, you are absolutely wrong. Not all testing is expensive but it provides priceless information. Often on the OFA website, they will have surveys for different breeds that anyone can participate in for free. So, I would encourage everyone with a dog to look at the website regularly and if a survey is available, provide any information you can.
As far as the hobby of showing dogs or participating in any of those other competitive sports with your dogs goes being snooty, I suppose that could be said about a lot of things. I think plenty of hobbies are stupid, but they aren't to the people that participate in them. If done responsibly, you can do whatever you want in my book.
As far as price, if someone can't afford $800 for a dog, what makes you think that they can afford the few thousand dollar surgeries that go with getting knees repaired, etc.? Nothing justifies getting a dog from a petstore, puppymill or backyard. There are thousands of shelter dogs that need homes right now. Oh, and the HSUS which I don't love altogether has connections in nearly every agency so they can make sure a concern gets to the top of the list. Believe me, they follow up on things very well. They take advantage of local resources (like the shelter I work with gets stuck with the medical bills, food bills, etc. when we do a raid and they get the credit) but they do help save lives. They aren't as bad as PETA.
FYI: Puppy Mills have adapted. They now have set up "Rescue" organizations to continue selling their pets to unsuspectuing animal lovers. You can spot these when adoptuion fees about equal the wholesale cost of a pet. You also will see tons of puppies and yet none, few or "already Adopted" adults. They will be located in states with known large number of puppy mills. They can always arrange transportation regardless of where you are and you never have to even see the place. Some have made false rescue homes for you to think they are legitimate brick&mortar rescue groups. They spend oddles of money on market research to know what heart string to pull to get a person to buy from a mill all the time thinking they are saving some poor puppy.
Because so many animal lovers are not as smart as they think, these mills can work around any law about mills. The industry makes over 1 billion dollars a year on puppy sales, they are not going to go quietly into the night.
FYI: Puppy Mills have adapted. They now have set up "Rescue" organizations to continue selling their pets to unsuspectuing animal lovers. You can spot these when adoptuion fees about equal the wholesale cost of a pet. You also will see tons of puppies and yet none, few or "already Adopted" adults. They will be located in states with known large number of puppy mills. They can always arrange transportation regardless of where you are and you never have to even see the place. Some have made false rescue homes for you to think they are legitimate brick&mortar rescue groups. They spend oddles of money on market research to know what heart string to pull to get a person to buy from a mill all the time thinking they are saving some poor puppy.
Because so many animal lovers are not as smart as they think, these mills can work around any law about mills. The industry makes over 1 billion dollars a year on puppy sales, they are not going to go quietly into the night.
Agreed. That is why petfinder has turned into a joke. They know they have the problem yet they don't stop it. Why? I am not really sure...but I have reported countless rescue fronts and get excuses back from Petfinder.
For anyone with a regular pet, the tests provide data - a wealth of data. Most of us don't breed our dogs, so if their results aren't favorable, it provides information that geneticists, and other scientists need to help find causes for defects, cures for defects, and effective treatments for defects.
Hey, I have an idea. Stop inbreeding.
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As far as the hobby of showing dogs or participating in any of those other competitive sports with your dogs goes being snooty, I suppose that could be said about a lot of things.
Its not the hobby of showing that is snooty, its the attitude that only show "quality" dogs should be allowed to reproduce under the guise that they are the only dogs guaranteed healthy when it is the practice of selective breeding to get desired physical characteristic in a breed that has brought about a variety of specific genetic disorders that perpetuate the need for OFA testing.
I also think it a "snooty" attitude to assume one must pay $800+ for a dog to be a responsible loving pet owner.
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As far as price, if someone can't afford $800 for a dog, what makes you think that they can afford the few thousand dollar surgeries that go with getting knees repaired, etc.?
The pit I aquired, from someones backyard, has ectopic ureter. I spent excess of 800$ on test and surgery to try to correct the problem (didnt work). Talking to my vet and doing some research I found it is common for many breeders to just "put down" such pups. As far as the other dogs/cats that have adopted me (free of charge) I have only had one major surgery (cat).
I know plenty ppl that have taken in strays and spent thousands of dollars on their health care. According to animal planet, there are plenty of ppl that have spent 800 on dogs that have had to be turned over to the ASPCA. Its a matter of education, not money.
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I also have a pound puppy who came from a kill shelter that had a Parvo Outbreak and really always seems to have Parvo outbreaks...there are plenty of dogs to go around for everyone...and I wish that they were all healthy from the beginning rather than having the odds of a lottery ticket as to whether they will be healthy or not. Maybe I set my expectations entirely too high...
There are thousands of shelter dogs that need homes right now. Oh, and the HSUS which I don't love altogether has connections in nearly every agency so they can make sure a concern gets to the top of the list. Believe me, they follow up on things very well. They take advantage of local resources (like the shelter I work with gets stuck with the medical bills, food bills, etc. when we do a raid and they get the credit) but they do help save lives. They aren't as bad as PETA. 
