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The basis for the difference is a different value system among Africans. It's why all over the planet there are issues with that group maintaining pace with other groups.
The only way to ever close the gap is to dumb down everyone (settle for the lowest common denominator). It's extremely unfair and stupid, and it's the direction many schools are going.
Thats not true.Why are Africans making the grades tha African Americans are not.Its a proven fact as the poster stated that African are making the grades comparable to Asians.
Oh and lets not forget that even among whites there are extreme differences.Like in Appalachia.Whites are during very poor.
If there was more focus on why these variations exist and what can be done to stop it then we would get further.Not to mention that in other countries with diverse multicultural populations the gap is not as profound as they are in America.Thats a problem until Americans get off their high horse and realize that people are not being educated evenly and our standards have slipped,we wil continue to decline.
Thats not true.Why are Africans making the grades tha African Americans are not.Its a proven fact as the poster stated that African are making the grades comparable to Asians.
Prove it. African communities are failing in France, the UK and Sweden. The only time I've heard of African's performing at the level of Asian's is when they were screened for IQ first, to ensure only high IQ ones were selected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1
Oh and lets not forget that even among whites there are extreme differences.Like in Appalachia.Whites are during very poor.If there was more focus on why these variations exist and what can be done to stop it then we would get further.
Yes, low IQ people are likely to perform worse. They lack the ability to perform at higher levels as the decision making is not as thorough. With out good guidance they will have numerous problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1
Not to mention that in other countries with diverse multicultural populations the gap is not as profound as they are in America.
Prove this claim as well. Most countries don't have large African populations. The ones that do all have problems. The larger % that the African's make of the whole population, the worse they perform. This is where the phrase "you just want them to act white" comes from, it was keeping African's spread out and pressuring them to accept a different culture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1
Thats a problem until Americans get off their high horse and realize that people are not being educated evenly and our standards have slipped,we wil continue to decline.
You are wrong on so many accounts. Schools that set high standards see African's fail at alarming rates. Then the NAACP gets involved, they school lowers standards to avoid being called racist and now everyone fails. Magnet schools in America have been shut down or forced to let poor quality students in because of this.
Until American's are really willing to step up and face African's and blame them for their own actions and stop fearing the pathetic race card will we never advance.
Prove it. African communities are failing in France, the UK and Sweden. The only time I've heard of African's performing at the level of Asian's is when they were screened for IQ first, to ensure only high IQ ones were selected.
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Africans have the highest educational attainment rates of any immigrant group in the United States. Estimates indicate that a significant percentage of black students at elite universities are African or the children of African immigrants, a notable example of this is Barack Obama.
In an analysis of Census Bureau data by the Journal of Blacks in higher education, African immigrants to the United States were found more likely to be college educated than any other immigrant group. African immigrants to the U.S. are also more highly educated than any other native-born ethnic group including white Americans. Some 48.9 percent of all African immigrants hold a college diploma. This is slightly less than the ., nearly double the rate of native-born white Americans, and nearly four times the rate of native-born African Americans.[9] In 1997, 19.4 percent of all adult African immigrants in the United States held a graduate degree, compared to 8.1 percent of adult white Americans and 3.8 percent of adult black Americans in the United States, respectively.[10] This information suggests that America has an equally large achievement gap between whites and African/Asian immigrants as it does between white and black Americans.
Of the African-born population in the United States age 25 and older, 87.9% reported having a high school degree or higher,[11] compared with 78.8% of Asian-born immigrants and 76.8% of European-born immigrants, respectively.[12] Immigrants groups in general tend to have higher high school graduation rates than the native-born general American population.
Africans from Nigeria (89.1 percent), Ghana (85.9 percent), Botswana (84.7 percent), and Malawi (83 percent) were the most likely to report having a high school degree or higher. Those born in Cape Verde (44.8 percent) and Mauritania (60.8 percent) were the least likely to report having completed a high school education.[13]
Yes, low IQ people are likely to perform worse. They lack the ability to perform at higher levels as the decision making is not as thorough. With out good guidance they will have numerous problems.
Well Duhh.
Prove this claim as well. Most countries don't have large African populations. The ones that do all have problems. The larger % that the African's make of the whole population, the worse they perform. This is where the phrase "you just want them to act white" comes from, it was keeping African's spread out and pressuring them to accept a different culture. I was not just talking about Africans.Pakistanis do worse than peoples from India in Britain.Here in the U.S. they are consistent with other Asian groups.Africans immigrants do worse in France.France however does not use race in its classifications.Its illegal to do so.In England African immigrants assimilate much easier therefore have on par education.You seem to not understand the difference between African and African American(a person of African decent).
African and African Americans are two different thingsWhich is my point.Something in the way this country has dealt with educating ALL its people is not sufficient.Hispanics and Latinos do poorly also.Oh and do you know that generational Asian with family history more than 3 decades have the same or worse attainment than whites or Asian that have been here less?
You are wrong on so many accounts. Schools that set high standards see African's fail at alarming rates. Then the NAACP gets involved, they school lowers standards to avoid being called racist and now everyone fails. Magnet schools in America have been shut down or forced to let poor quality students in because of this. YOU PROVE THIS The NAACP may be involved in things but for the most part you give them more power than what they used to have and thier support even within the black community is not that great either now days
Until American's are really willing to step up and face African's and blame them for their own actions and stop fearing the pathetic race card will we never advance.
Im not by any means saying that those who have access to good education yet choose to fail should be supported by the government,but the bottom line is there is a difference in each of schools from state to state and system to system.Unless you come from and educated family the difference will not get absorbs if the parents are uneducated.Like generational wealth and poverty,the more likely you re to succeed with that background
Randy, I doubt you touched the OP's link but you will notice that poorer states had lower scores for whites.
See, poverty links very closely with school performance and *drum roll please* blacks tend to be more impoverished in the US.
So, I do not see any merit to your argument about people with dark skin color not having the IQ to do well. Go to wikipedia and type in "covariance" because your current claims are along the lines of "I will carry an umbrella because I want it to rain.".
HOWEVER, your news post is SPOT ON about the anti-education culture in the US especially among blacks and I've heard the same stuff from friends that got hassled all through school for "acting white" or "uncle tom" etc. which is especially aimed at black males. (Big education gap between black males and females.) Heck, I experienced it myself being called "brain" etc throughout school as being smart in the US is not valued until you are older but you can be functionally illiterate and a good ball player and be treated like a king.
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Side note: If you really want to get down and dirty about claiming IQ with skin color etc. then you and I are going to have a rather interesting converation along the lines of the one that got George Rockwell killed. (One of the funniest events in US history.)
I looked at one of the students. I don't think it is so much the South being better at closing the gap.
The states that were listed as having the narrowest achievement gap at grade 4 in mathematics are:
California
Connecticut
Delaware
District of Columbia
Florida
Georgia
Louisiana
Massachusetts
Michigan
Mississippi
New Jersey
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Texas
Virginia
Achievement gap can be deceiving in this case. In some cases, it isn't so much that Black students are performing better, but White students are performing below the national average in some states. Examples of this include:California,Georgia,Louisiana,Michigan,Miss issippi.
The states with the lowest achievement gaps where both Blacks and Whites are scoring above the national average areelaware,Florida,Massachusetts,New Jersey,Texas,and Virginia. This is all from the mathematics section. Blacks score the highest in Massachusetts and New Jersey(tie). The bottom 6 for Black students(excluding Washington DC, the lowest) include: Nebraska,Wisconsin,Alabama,Tennessee,Michigan,and Illinois(MI and IL are tied).
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,456,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
Randy, I doubt you touched the OP's link but you will notice that poorer states had lower scores for whites.
See, poverty links very closely with school performance and *drum roll please* blacks tend to be more impoverished in the US.
So, I do not see any merit to your argument about people with dark skin color not having the IQ to do well. Go to wikipedia and type in "covariance" because your current claims are along the lines of "I will carry an umbrella because I want it to rain.".
HOWEVER, your news post is SPOT ON about the anti-education culture in the US especially among blacks and I've heard the same stuff from friends that got hassled all through school for "acting white" or "uncle tom" etc. which is especially aimed at black males. (Big education gap between black males and females.) Heck, I experienced it myself being called "brain" etc throughout school as being smart in the US is not valued until you are older but you can be functionally illiterate and a good ball player and be treated like a king.
Yes, I'd tend to agree re: the link between "attitudes", education and poverty/class differences. Some research has also pointed to cultural differences to explain the education gap between blacks and whites (especially compared to "northern" whites). And it's also interesting to note that the least gaps are not just in areas with large populations of poor whites, but poor southern whites, who are actually a pretty specific culture of their own.
In "Black Rednecks & White Liberals", Thomas Sowell points out that "much of what passes as black identity today, including "black English," has its roots in the history of those whites who were called "rednecks" and "crackers" centuries ago in Britain, before they ever crossed the Atlantic and settled in the South."
So poor southern whites and poor blacks have much more in common, including their attitudes about education, or as Sowell puts it, "(southern) culture was as notable for what it did not have as for what it had. It did not emphasize education, for example, or intellectual interests in general."
Perhaps the better question to ask is, what's the median level of education that the gap is closing in on, in each of these states... or is it simply the region's "lowest common denominator"?
Last edited by mateo45; 03-03-2011 at 10:49 AM..
Reason: link...
I came across some research and I noticed that the "Achievement Gap" overall seem to be closer in the South than the North.Why are some states closing that gap and others seem to be the same or further apart?Is it more racism?If that the case then many peoples perception of the South is off.Or is this a fair assessment of race being an issue in educating?Where is YOUR state and why do you think it is and the direction its going in to close that gap?
Also how serious do some of you see this as even a major issue?
Between 1992-2007 these states closed that gap the fastest and outpaced the gains of white students(mathematics):
California
Connecticut
Delaware
District of Columbia
Florida
Georgia
Louisiana
Massachusetts
Michigan
Mississippi
New Jersey
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Texas
Virginia
The state that had the smallest gap was West Virginia.13% The national average is 27%.How does West Virginia acheive this and other states are so different?
In a lot of ways I think your question is not that important in the grand scehme of things. The fact that remains that America, as a whole is underachieving in education compared to the rest of the world. What passes for average achievement here is well below average in other developed countries.
In a lot of ways I think your question is not that important in the grand scehme of things. The fact that remains that America, as a whole is underachieving in education compared to the rest of the world. What passes for average achievement here is well below average in other developed countries.
I agree, but it's not quite that simple. Massachusetts, for example, is competitive with high achieving nations. "Massachusetts' fourth and eighth graders outscored the nation, and most of their international peers, in math and science on the world's largest study of student performance in those subjects, Governor Patrick announced at the Manassah E. Bradley School in East Boston on Tuesday." Source. Unfortunately, I think 2010 showed challenges, but don't quote me on that. Any way, take MA and MS, get an average, and it tells a different story. Just not an accurate story for MA.
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Which is my point.Something in the way this country has dealt with educating ALL its people is not sufficient.Hispanics and Latinos do poorly also.Oh and do you know that generational Asian with family history more than 3 decades have the same or worse attainment than whites or Asian that have been here less?
elaware,Florida,Massachusetts,New Jersey,Texas,and Virginia. This is all from the mathematics section. Blacks score the highest in Massachusetts and New Jersey(tie). The bottom 6 for Black students(excluding Washington DC, the lowest) include: Nebraska,Wisconsin,Alabama,Tennessee,Michigan,and Illinois(MI and IL are tied).
