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Miu,my advice to you is just for future references: When you are debating with someone; stand above the suspension bridge and then poor your hydrofluoric acid on the bridge. You are standing underneath the bridge and pouring acid on what's holding the bridge up...The majority of the bridge will fall on top of you. I'm speaking figuratively, off course.
I'm really not sure where you're going with all of this because I'm looking at your rep points and I know that a lot of people put stock into what you say. I look at the above post and there you are standing underneath the bridge etching away at the beams holding it up. Seriously, you're doing a bad job stating your case on things...if I were a White guy, I'd be like "NOoo, she's doing it again, please stop!"
Anyway, I have to go but I'll respond to that when I get back to the house.
Theses things are constantly being brought out in studies but white folks seem to ignore such studies or dismiss them as a liberal conspiracy. I have presented numerous links of studies done on job discrimination and housing discrimination and discrimination by the police, courts and the like and whites offer no comments. The topic and post just fade to the bottom because whites don't want to deal with.....you don't want deal with it because it debunks your fallacy about the mythical end of white racism.
I think you miss the entire point of what has been done. No one can pass a law eliminating racism, but its impossible to change the thoughts the people have. Nor, is it government's business to try to change people's thoughts. What was done back in the sixties through passage of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, and the Fair Housing Act was to give blacks the right to access public accommodations, the right to vote, and the right to obtain housing where they wished to live. That's the first step in ending discrimination. The second step was for black people to take advantage of those opportunities and use them to improve their lives. Some black people have done so. Too many have not done so. That's really why we are here and having this discussion right now.
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Well the difference between you and me is that I constantly seek out and participate with discussions with whites. Thus, pretty much know what white mainstream opinion is. If you don't know what black opinion is its because you don't value it enough to try to find out what it is. Maybe it does not have any value to you and hence you don't know if I am an anomalie or not. You just demostrated your ignorance of black people.
I'm not very social and I can't say I seek out a lot of opportunities to talk to very many people. I also live in a state where there are very few black people. Nevertheless, I've read very opinions by blacks seeking reparations. Interestingly, I saw one article written by a conservative white person arguing for reparations. His article took the position that he'd like to pay blacks something, so that we could end the whole civil rights thing right now. His idea was make one payment and than we could pretend that no racial problem exists anymore. I find that kind of thinking to be ridiculous.
On the contrary, I support finding disadvantaged people of all colors and trying to put together some kinds of programs to help them. I agree there is still racism in this country and there are still people today who need our help.
What I don't support is giving black people (like yourself apparently) who are earning over $100,000 a year in this country a windfall.
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Now....why would a person who believes that a nation is racist....believe that the racist nation would ever pay reparations....especially in this era of trillion dollar deficts and government insolvency? My friend, this is simply an academic discussion. There is no hope or expectations that reparations would ever come into fruitions......just so you know where I am coming from.
You've said that before. I believe you. I am surprised at the raw nerve you seemed to have touched here which I measure by the number of replies this thread has gotten.
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I agree with you that those things need to be AND ARE being dealt with. Since you don't know much about black people, as demostrated by not knowing if I am an anomolie or not, then you have no clue what we are addressing in our community. However, let me just add that even when black had high rates of marriage and low crime.........we still had the same problems in America. One can even argue that the problems you mention were the result or consquences of mistreatment, as every action creates a reaction (question...what was the reaction to centuries of white racism upon blacks).
I don't doubt that some of the problems of crime, drugs, and single parenthood are due to racism. The problem is that as you say yourself, these problems were not always present, in epidemic proportions, within the Black Community. What many of us find befuddling is that they have gotten worse after all the reforms that have been implemented. In the end though, I see it as less a problem of race than a problem of culture. There are plenty of whites and other races behaving similarly and there are plenty of blacks who have escaped and live a middle class lifestyle.
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LOL....Of course nearly all white folks think they are the smartest people in the room when the room is filled with blacks. Look at the absurdity and hypocricy in what you write. On one had you don't even know if my type of thinking is an anomolie among blacks, which demonstrates that you don't know much about blacks if you have to hope and wonder, yet....lol...you think you are much more in tune with the needs of black community than I am....lol Dude....you have ZERO credibility. If you were better in tune with the black community then there would be no need to wonder if my opinion is atypical. Like I said....this is childs play. Your arms are too short to box with the truth. I am not even breaking a sweat. You might be shocked to learn that I actually like a lot of white folks......many are good people. There have always been good white folks, but the existance of good white folks did not prevent whites from enslaving blacks for centuries....did it?
You've said nothing here which makes me believe you don't have white friends. That being said, I have no particular reason to believe that other than the mere color of your skin that you are particularly in tune with the needs of the disadvantaged segment of the Black Community. You admitted in another post that you have an income of better than $100,000 a year. This places you in the top 10% of income earners in the USA. The median income for vast majority of black families is way, way below that. Most of the knowledge that I obtain on these subjects is from reading respected journals, newspapers, and periodicals. I may lack "street smarts", but I have much better general background knowledge than most do.
You admit that reparations would never be passed. So, therefore, if one really wants to do something about poverty, injustice, and racism it would behoove you to come up with another way to approach it. The fact that you haven't done so leads me to question your commitment to helping disadvantaged groups of blacks or any other race for that matter. Do you really want to help those groups? Are you merely trying to make an academic point about reparations? Or, like most others, are you really just in this for yourself?
Is black racism against whites ok? Also, I work with, am friends with, and have family members(married) that are black. None of them blame white people for anything, but then again they are all successful. They work hard to be that way.
You just articulated the ticket to success. Look forwards and upwards.
What, are you admitting that he was Black now? After reading this: "New" Discoveries About Hannibal Barca, would anyone really be surprised if the guy turned out to be Black after all? I mean, he's a "crappy" general now, so is the table being set?
Your post was a little funny though.
It was intended to be a twist on the ridiculous notion that the past must be paid.
I am so sick of this nonsense.
For one thing - of all the blacks I have ever been associated and/or friends with, I have NEVER heard anyone say they personally wanted reparations.
seriously - this topic is just to cause turmoil and additional racism in our country.
Just Another DIVIDE & CONQUER tool!
This is rediculous ... FACE IT - some say that over 50% of the French and English slave trade came from Ghana and Nigeria
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PROJECTED EXPORTS OF THAT PORTION OF THE FRENCH AND ENGLISH SLAVE TRADE HAVING IDENTIFIABLE REGION OF COAST ORIGIN IN AFRICA, 1711-1810.
Senegambia (Senegal-Gambia) * 5.8%
Sierra Leone 3.4%
Windward Coast (Ivory Coast) * 12.1%
Gold Coast (Ghana) * 14.4%
Bight of Benin (Nigeria) * 14.5
Bight of Biafra (Nigeria) * 25.1%
Central and Southeast Africa (Cameroon-N. Angola) * 24.7% (SOURCE)
QUESTION: How many descendent's of slaves would have done better there than they can here?
HELLO - America is called THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY!
... Is Ghana or Nigeria any sort of great opportunity? Not even close!
How many people have migrated there for opportunity? Compare THAT to American Migration ...
I've watched this thread in great amusement. I'm a Black American and don't want reparations, and neither do the majority of other Black Americans I've asked. The few polls out there of Black Americans share my opinion on reparations. It's amazing that many of you haven't realized that posters like Indentured Servant are simply having fun at your expense. Even Indentured Servant hinted (without outright saying) that his opinion isn't shared by the majority of Blacks. You need to treat him as an individual instead of playing right into his hands and applying his opinions to all Blacks.
You're assisting him in making you appear to be racists by doing this instead of actually doing research and asking your Black friends and family. I've asked many of my friends and family members about this over the years, and the overwhelming majority said "no I can make my own money", or jokingly said, "I don't care about it, but if they give me free money I'll take it".
Many of you need to stop getting riled up by a few posters' opinions and applying this opinion to all Black Americans. How would you feel if the same were done to you simply because someone of the same skin color shared the same opinion?
Can someone please bring new arguments or close this ignorant thread? All I see are the same opinions repeated on every page.
It's always been a case of " the biggest bad** wins".
Granted, one tribe always seemed to pick on another one but that's a little off topic.
The question here is whether or not "White" America should pay restitution to descendants of slaves. I say NO! Why should we? It's not like our ancestors went to Africa and kidnapped people. They were sold into slavery by fellow Africans. If people want to be compensated, they need to start at the beginning, their fellow countrymen so to speak.
As for blacks being held back by whites, gimme a break! It's just another excuse. People hold themselves back, regardless of race. If you want a better life, work for it.
What I want to know is how many African American posters on this thread actually remember life before desegregation? How many are just repeating what they've heard from an older family member?
Well, I do remember! Yes, it was wrong to have separate drinking fountains, schools and other things. It's history now, over and done with. Move along. Things are a thousand times better now. Quit living in the past and start working on your future.
It seems to be just "more of the same" from blacks. Like when a rogue elephant threatens black's crops in Africa. Nobody lifts a hand or sticks there neck out. They call on a white hunter to risk his neck to kill the beast, and when he does, and the meat is being dispossed-off, they show up by the hundreds with their hands out.
No different here except it is cash instead of elephant meat. As sad as it is, their behaviour, en masse, seems to be no different.
I'm sorry you feel affected by others' life choices. I choose see women as individuals. Even if I see trends, I still don't allow that to cloud my own perception of each individual woman I come into contact with. I am aware that many people do not follow this, but we would have less issues if they did.
Our society is so obsessed with grouping people that we even let ourselves feel affected by the negative actions of others who share something in common with us. Just because they are similar to you does not mean they should define you, even just a little.
This absolutely defines what underlys so many of our problems. We have become so consious of our "groups" (large AND small) that we tend to see a group over a person. Its especially sad when people allow someone else's perception of their group to effect the way they see themselves.
In a huge, and varied society "groups" are going to happen, because we need smaller units to relate to, but the ones we usually find for ourselves are about things we like and like people and interests. I can relate to someone who likes to write FAR better than someone who, though she may match age and other factors, doesn't have that interest. These are the kinds of groups that actually break down barriers since we see past the external stuff.
It was intended to be a twist on the ridiculous notion that the past must be paid.
I am so sick of this nonsense.
For one thing - of all the blacks I have ever been associated and/or friends with, I have NEVER heard anyone say they personally wanted reparations.
seriously - this topic is just to cause turmoil and additional racism in our country.
Just Another DIVIDE & CONQUER tool!
This is rediculous ... FACE IT - some say that over 50% of the French and English slave trade came from Ghana and Nigeria
QUESTION: How many descendent's of slaves would have done better there than they can here?
HELLO - America is called THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY!
... Is Ghana or Nigeria any sort of great opportunity? Not even close!
How many people have migrated there for opportunity? Compare THAT to American Migration ...
... and stop kicking a dead horse! It won't move!
You seem pretty genuine with this. Thing is I think that we all know that the ship has sailed when one talks about any monetary reparation and that has been my stance from the jump on this thread.
Reparation doesn't have to come in the form of throwing out money, it can come in the form of removing/correcting errors in how things operate. Me, I'd like to see some type of societal expiation and yes, it requires both sides to get this thing to work.
One of my biggest questions was: Why do the bad actions from a few Blacks stick to all of the Black folks? Again, there are 5 White people for every 1 Black person but yet:
-33% of the group that I'm in are under the "care" of this criminal justice system.
-Blacks are around 13% of the drug using group/population but yet 74% of those sent to prison on some drug charge are Black...ah, nothing to see here.
-Something close to 8/10 Black men are expected to be arrested by the time they hit 35...
I don't want to bore you with stats but clearly something is wrong here.
I can't really answer the 2nd part about the if slaves grew up in the UK or France instead of the US. Honestly, that's why a a number of Blacks see this country's history a screwed up. I see this "Land of Opportunity" claim as empty because: Blacks made attempts to fit in and be American and all but they were rejected back then (point blank). Feel free to refute.
Let me ask you this regarding monetary reparations: Did you think that the newly emancipated Blacks were owed for their labor? My stance, it would not have hurt to have given every slave 10k back then because they earned/deserved it (the US Gov't was in a generous mood during those days, Homesteading kicked off the year before). The ship has sailed on that but it's not too late for societal reparations.
Let me ask you another question: In a ten lap race, would you expect person B to win or tie with person A if person A had a 5 lap head start?
You seem pretty genuine with this. Thing is I think that we all know that the ship has sailed when one talks about any monetary reparation and that has been my stance from the jump on this thread.
Reparation doesn't have to come in the form of throwing out money, it can come in the form of removing/correcting errors in how things operate. Me, I'd like to see some type of societal expiation and yes, it requires both sides to get this thing to work.
One of my biggest questions was: Why do the bad actions from a few Blacks stick to all of the Black folks? Again, there are 5 White people for every 1 Black person but yet:
-33% of the group that I'm in are under the "care" of this criminal justice system.
-Blacks are around 13% of the drug using group/population but yet 74% of those sent to prison on some drug charge are Black...ah, nothing to see here.
-Something close to 8/10 Black men are expected to be arrested by the time they hit 35...
I don't want to bore you with stats but clearly something is wrong here.
I can't really answer the 2nd part about the if slaves grew up in the UK or France instead of the US. Honestly, that's why a a number of Blacks see this country's history a screwed up. I see this "Land of Opportunity" claim as empty because: Blacks made attempts to fit in and be American and all but they were rejected back then (point blank). Feel free to refute.
Let me ask you this regarding monetary reparations: Did you think that the newly emancipated Blacks were owed for their labor? My stance, it would not have hurt to have given every slave 10k back then because they earned/deserved it (the US Gov't was in a generous mood during those days, Homesteading kicked off the year before). The ship has sailed on that but it's not too late for societal reparations.
Let me ask you another question: In a ten lap race, would you expect person B to win or tie with person A if person A had a 5 lap head start?
You seem pretty genuine with this. Thing is I think that we all know that the ship has sailed when one talks about any monetary reparation and that has been my stance from the jump on this thread.
Reparation doesn't have to come in the form of throwing out money, it can come in the form of removing/correcting errors in how things operate. Me, I'd like to see some type of societal expiation and yes, it requires both sides to get this thing to work.
One of my biggest questions was: Why do the bad actions from a few Blacks stick to all of the Black folks? Again, there are 5 White people for every 1 Black person but yet:
-33% of the group that I'm in are under the "care" of this criminal justice system.
-Blacks are around 13% of the drug using group/population but yet 74% of those sent to prison on some drug charge are Black...ah, nothing to see here.
-Something close to 8/10 Black men are expected to be arrested by the time they hit 35...
I don't want to bore you with stats but clearly something is wrong here.
I can't really answer the 2nd part about the if slaves grew up in the UK or France instead of the US. Honestly, that's why a a number of Blacks see this country's history a screwed up. I see this "Land of Opportunity" claim as empty because: Blacks made attempts to fit in and be American and all but they were rejected back then (point blank). Feel free to refute.
Let me ask you this regarding monetary reparations: Did you think that the newly emancipated Blacks were owed for their labor? My stance, it would not have hurt to have given every slave 10k back then because they earned/deserved it (the US Gov't was in a generous mood during those days, Homesteading kicked off the year before). The ship has sailed on that but it's not too late for societal reparations.
Let me ask you another question: In a ten lap race, would you expect person B to win or tie with person A if person A had a 5 lap head start?
Seems like a whole lot of bad behaviour on the part of blacks. So much for reparations.
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Dude....you have ZERO credibility. If you were better in tune with the black community then there would be no need to wonder if my opinion is atypical. Like I said....this is childs play. Your arms are too short to box with the truth. I am not even breaking a sweat. You might be shocked to learn that I actually like a lot of white folks......many are good people. There have always been good white folks, but the existance of good white folks did not prevent whites from enslaving blacks for centuries....did it?
