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I don't think women ever have any responsibility for their own rape. She can be so drunk she passes out, dressed like a stripper and have Come and Get It written on her T shirt but when she does not give express consent it is rape. To say otherwise is saying that men "just can't help themselves" and shows little respect for men and their ability to know right from wrong.
I don't think women ever have any responsibility for their own rape. She can be so drunk she passes out, dressed like a stripper and have Come and Get It written on her T shirt but when she does not give express consent it is rape. To say otherwise is saying that men "just can't help themselves" and shows little respect for men and their ability to know right from wrong.
men have always blamed women for being "gatekeepers". They still are, even the younger generation, just look on the "romance" thread.
The problem with setting women up as Withholders of Male Enjoyment, is that there are always going to be males who enjoy breaching that imaginary barrier.
Until men accept that their sexual pleasure is their own responsibility, not a womans, we will never have equality, and we will continue to experience rape.
If my daughter came to me and said, "I was out at a party last night, got so drunk I blacked out, and I woke up this morning and realized I has been raped", would I help her go after the perpetrators? Yes, absolutely! At the same time, I'd also tell her that she might want to NOT get drunk and pass out like that again (and be in a completely vulnerable position instead of taking care of herself properly), as there are a lot of creeps out there who assume that an inability to say "no" automatically means "yes".
Don't put yourself in harm's way. It's just that simple. Sometimes the people you think are your friends really aren't.
Date rape is a very different issue, and it has a lot to do with mixed messages. A woman needs to be very clear, and not show any ambivalence. Men are taught to be persistent, that if they keep asking enough times, that "no" will turn to "yes". I know when I was very young, I'd be saying, "No, stop", but I'd also be giggling. Most men are going to hear the laughter, not the "no", no matter how wrong that may be.
My son, by the way, is the "cover her up with a blanket and let her sleep it off" type, which makes me a very proud mom.
It bothers me that so many people think that women should be able to go anywhere and behave in any way they like, and if something awful happens, they still didn't play any part in it. The reality is far different, and while that's unfortunate, I'd rather that my daughter be safe and unharmed by taking some common sense precautions instead of throwing caution to the wind.
You really expect males to take responsibility? Really? Granted the good one's do, but the one's that have problems will always blame women- or young girls-or young boys. Never mind what they wear or how they act, the fact that they exist is enough of an excuse to violate them. Even the females who have inappropriate sex seldom blame the victims. Take responsibility for your own actions. Just because someone does not want to tell you he or she would not want to be with you on a bet does not mean that person is willing. "I'm busy tonight" is not an excuse for rape. That is when you ask about another night.
For those of you who think rape in any way, shape, or form, is acceptable, you had better pray you don't try it with the wrong one.
Ok, here is one for debate: When does "persistence" end and rape begin ? Here is why I ask. Every guy who grew up in the 50's and 60's (just to pick a period in time.........but probably other periods in time too) knows that back then girls were expected to say "no" and to put up some protest about going further in lovemaking. I can't tell you how many young girls I dated back then would say " I can't do this" but if you were persistent and kept up the lovemaking, sooner or later you might score. It was the game every young couple played because of the way sex was viewed back then......i.e, nice girls didn't have it.
I know someone will come back with "No means no, regardless of what time period it was", but if young guys had simply quit on the first protest, no one would have ever gotten laid. Maybe that sounds crass but it was just the way it was, and maybe to some degree still is.
Don't get me wrong, rape is rape and is absolutely wrong, but I am talking about a different level of protesting on the part of the female. The level I am talking about is where she probably wanted sex as much as the guy but society was saying she shouldn't until she was married, so she felt it was the right thing to say no.
Ok, here is one for debate: When does "persistence" end and rape begin ? Here is why I ask. Every guy who grew up in the 50's and 60's (just to pick a period in time.........but probably other periods in time too) knows that back then girls were expected to say "no" and to put up some protest about going further in lovemaking. I can't tell you how many young girls I dated back then would say " I can't do this" but if you were persistent and kept up the lovemaking, sooner or later you might score. It was the game every young couple played because of the way sex was viewed back then......i.e, nice girls didn't have it.
I know someone will come back with "No means no, regardless of what time period it was", but if young guys had simply quit on the first protest, no one would have ever gotten laid. Maybe that sounds crass but it was just the way it was, and maybe to some degree still is.
Don't get me wrong, rape is rape and is absolutely wrong, but I am talking about a different level of protesting on the part of the female. The level I am talking about is where she probably wanted sex as much as the guy but society was saying she shouldn't until she was married, so she felt it was the right thing to say no.
Don
So, you wouldn't take "No" for an answer and kept pressuring her until she said "Yes". How many of the women regretted doing it with you? Consent was NOT freely given. You forced it. Force = Rape.
Keep telling yourself that she wanted it but was being a good girl. Even is she was being a good girl, why wouldn't you take "No" for an answer? You "knew" it was a polite protest? You were in their heads? You pressured them into sex. Yes, "No" meant "No" back then, just as "No" means "No" now. You are just trying to justify your actions.
Lots of guys may think it was just getting laid, but it was rape if she was saying "No". Lots of guys waited until marriage and other guys at least waited until the "Yes" was freely given. Male animals push the female until she is exhausted and then mate.
Nope, not that at all. It wasn't like guys would "overpower" a girl and force her into having sex, it was simply the way young people did the sex dance together. She said no, you continued kissing, you moved a hand, if there was little protest you moved to second base. If you weren't there you couldn't possibly understand the interaction between men and women in the days before "sexual freedom."
I have had lots of girls who would say "Ok, we can take our clothes off, but I can't go all the way." That was like the plateau you were not supposed to get to. And to answer your question, yes, most of the time they DID enjoy it as much as the boys, but they simply were not supposed to in their head.....especially Catholic girls.
Recently, a Montana judge said a 14 year old girl that was raped and later committed suicide made comments that she was partly to blame for her own rape. The rapist was sentenced 30 days.
A study showed Britons believe 1/3 of raped women were responsible because of their flirtatious actions. 1/4 believe women responsible for wearing provocative clothing.
What do you say? Can women be partly responsible when raped?
Yes. CAN BE. Not always "are".
I know I'm going to ruffle some feathers by saying this but all you have to do to see my point is examine the situations these women were in at the time of rape.
A woman who is totally sober, in the privacy of her own home, who gets raped after a maniac breaks in through her locked door (or closed window) and threatens her life is not to blame in any way.
A woman who goes to a party where alcohol and/or drugs are being used with reckless abandon, gets totally hammered and passes out, and is violated while unconscious, is partly to blame for being raped. She could have left the party once discovering that intoxicants were abundant. She could have avoided consuming said intoxicants. Instead, she threw caution to the wind. If you do that, you're inviting trouble and anyone who invites trouble to that extent is partially to blame.
I had a friend who got raped at age 19. She met a gas station attendant, thought he was cute, gave him her number, and he called her. She met him at his house, alone. She knew nothing about the guy. He raped her then and there. Now how many mistakes can you find in this situation? 1) Meeting a guy she'd never conversed with, alone. 2) Meeting said guy at his house (terrain familiar to him but unfamiliar to her), rather than a public location. 3) Going into his house with him rather than remaining outside. 4) Not having a protective weapon with her... like a gun, a knife, or at least mace or pepper spray. (Bear in mind, said friend was a rather promiscuous woman, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if she had given him some clue that she was fast and loose. However, even if she didn't, those four aforementioned mistakes still hold.)
Whenever you see an article describing a rape, read it from the perspective of a concerned parent whose daughter got into that situation. How many mistakes would you say the female victim made? Most times you can find at least one critical mistake. Remember - criminals prefer victims who won't fight back. That means, for a rapist, get the girl by herself in terrain that's unfamiliar to her and remove her ability to fight back - either by getting her intoxicated or overwhelming her physically. If women avoided scenarios where there was a substantial chance that they could be raped, there'd be far fewer rapes.
If a man walks through a bad area flashing money and jewelry and gets beaten and robbed, he is an idiot and deserved it.
If a woman provocatively dressed to begin with gets staggering drunk around a group of men and gets "raped", she is a "victim".
Barring a grabbed off the street incident, any woman who exercises poor judgement prior to the so-called rape is at least partly responsible.
I agree with this, 100%.
Some women inappropriately flaunt their bodies and their availability like waving a meaty bone in front of a starving dog. Don't whine when the dog bites.
Rape can and does happen to completely innocent women, but if you're going to advertise what you've got, don't be surprised when someone decides to take you up on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4
The fact that it does not make it any less of a crime mitigates all actions by the victim.
For example, I can take a stack of gold bricks and pile 'em outside my house on my front lawn.
Stupid? Yes.
But that does not make it MY FAULT if someone trespasses on my property and swipes a brick.
It is 100% their decision to violate the law and take advantage of what they think is a sweet situation.
If it is 100% their decision to break the law and commit the crime, that leaves 0% blame to place on anyone else.
"On your property" is the key to your scenario.
What if you pile those gold bricks on public property or in a private location that doesn't belong to you? Would you pile those bricks in a bar where people were drinking? On the street in front of someone else's house?
Your scenario is silly.
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That was like the plateau you were not supposed to get to. And to answer your question, yes, most of the time they DID enjoy it as much as the boys, but they simply were not supposed to in their head.....especially Catholic girls.