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I saw this written by Dr. Roy Benaroch. It is a parable about vaccination. My question is do you agree? Or are you against vaccinations. If you are against, please explain why.
Because they can compromise your immune system and leave you vulnerable to other illnesses you might not get otherwise!!!
Nature provided us with an immune system FOR A REASON!!! -- It didnt intend that system to be filled with garbage.
Did she have a mild case though? Breastfeeding will not necessarily prevent all cases but it will help the baby to be able to fight it as the baby will have your antibodies to help with that fight. The complications and deaths are ultimately what we need to avoid and breastfeeding helps with those things.
I am not saying that you needed more education and support but clearly many women do need more education and support with breastfeeding. This would be so beneficial in so many ways yet all of the focus is solely on vaccines.
Yes, she had a mild case compared to other children I've seen, but as stated I was concerned for the other children since I was not privy to their medical situations. I don't know who she came into contact with during the incubation period.
I agree that more education is great, but that's not so much an issue in my neck of the woods/circles.
eta: my ped still had her get the vaccine because she didn't think her case would have provided her enough immunity in the future.
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This is the thing though, even with vaccines and modern medicine we don't get to choose if we get sick or not. We can do certain things to prevent getting sick, vaccines are just one of those things but we are still all at risk for getting sick and if someone caught the chicken pox from your daughter then that is just how life works.
I agree that is just how life works, although I did feel some responsibility. This brings me to the obvious question about how chickenpox parties are handled. What do you guys do during the known incubation periods? Do you keep the kids in the house or allow them their daily routines until the disease manifests? Is there concern about infecting others (immunocompromised, pregnant women who may not have had the disease, adults, etc)?
I agree that is just how life works, although I did feel some responsibility. This brings me to the obvious question about how chickenpox parties are handled. What do you guys do during the known incubation periods? Do you keep the kids in the house or allow them their daily routines until the disease manifests? Is there concern about infecting others (immunocompromised, pregnant women who may not have had the disease, adults, etc)?
I can only speak for myself but if I intentionally exposed my children to chicken pox I would absolutely tell other parents that they had been exposed and I would keep them home. If the parents wanted to send their kid over to play, I would let them but I would be sure they understood that my kids had been exposed and could be contagious. I would do the same if my children had strep throat or lice or the flu. I would keep them home until they were no longer contagious.
When I was young, every kid in the neighborhood got chicken pox together at the same time and our parents intentionally exposed all of us. It was a chicken pox party of sorts I suppose. We had a great time to be honest and we kept playing outside together through the entire illness. I remember being itchy but still having a fun summer, pox and all.
I can only speak for myself but if I intentionally exposed my children to chicken pox I would absolutely tell other parents that they had been exposed and I would keep them home. If the parents wanted to send their kid over to play, I would let them but I would be sure they understood that my kids had been exposed and could be contagious. I would do the same if my children had strep throat or lice or the flu. I would keep them home until they were no longer contagious.
When I was young, every kid in the neighborhood got chicken pox together at the same time and our parents intentionally exposed all of us. It was a chicken pox party of sorts I suppose. We had a great time to be honest and we kept playing outside together through the entire illness. I remember being itchy but still having a fun summer, pox and all.
That's good to hear and that it was done during the summer so they didn't have to go to school. My brother and I got it, but not purposely, so we just found out when symptoms manifested.
Besides that, when my husband got shingles this year we ended up putting him on anti-virals.
Children who get the chicken pox vaccine are also at risk for shingles later on. The chicken pox vaccine offers temporary immunity while catching the actual chicken pox offers lifetime immunity. Both open up the a person up for the possibility of shingles later in life.
Prior to the advent of the chicken pox vaccine, almost everyone got the chicken pox as children, a small percentage got it as adults. 99% of kids who got chicken pox had no complications. Children having chicken pox served an important role in warding off shingles in the community. Post chicken pox, people's natural immunity would get asymptomatically "boosted" by coming into contact with children infected with chicken pox. This "boosting" of natural immunity to chickenpox helped protect people from getting shingles later in life. Now people have to rely on getting multiple vaccines for both chicken pox and shingles.
Chicken pox is becoming rarer and rarer so adults are no longer getting the boost to their immune systems from coming into contact with children recovering from chicken pox. Many speculate that we will see a rise in shingles cases due to this fact. I actually think the chicken pox vaccine has caused more harm then good and I wish people would rethink this.
I'm originally from the UK, where there is no chicken pox vaccine and virtually everyone gets it naturally during childhood. I am also unaware of shingles being a significant threat over there; I've always believed that, as you say, it's the presence of the pox virus in the general community that provides 'natural top-ups' to people's immunity as they age.
I was curious, so found some stats. Apparently shingles is present in the US at 0.4% of the population annually (http://meps.ahrq.gov/mepsweb/data_fi...94/stat194.pdf). The UK, on the other hand, has a rate of 0.3% of the population annually (Shingles - NHS Choices). There IS a shingles vaccination available in the UK, but it's only indicated for those over 70, and certainly isn't a mainstream thing (I didn't even realise it was available there) so I doubt there's much uptake.
This would seem to indicate that in the matter of shingles prevention, having chicken pox naturally in the population has a more preventative effect than having a vaccinated population.
I don't many qualms against requiring parents to vaccinate their children. However, I do think some other strategies deserve consideration. For example, I wonder if paying parents a small amount of money to get their children all their immunizations might increase immunization rates? Also, the availability of the services could be improved some areas. My wife advocated for a mobile vaccination van in her health department. Sometimes, she would set up shop next to school registration officials. Parents would be confronted at registration with the fact that their children hadn't been vaccinated and she would literally give them their missing shots right at the registration site. Lack of convenient access to vaccination is still a factor some in low vaccination rates for children.
Of course, our state (unwisely IMO) allows parents to avoid vaccinating their children by claiming nothing other than a "personal objection" to vaccination. A vaccination waiver must be obtained from the health department. I would deliberately make it a bit difficult to claim the waivers. Even acts like requiring such parents to travel to a remote place in the county at a specific day and time and first watch a movie about infectious disease would stop some of the more half-hearted people who wanted a waiver from claiming one.
I think we could be more imaginative than we are and pursue strategies completely within the law that could result in a substantial increase in vaccination rates.
Lack of convenient access to vaccination, IMO, is an excuse and nothing more. In my county, and all the counties where I have worked, immunization clinics are available at various locations on various days and hours, including evening hours. We tried such strategies as the above, plus offering IZs at malls, rec centers and the like even on Saturdays and got very poor response. And now, with the ACA, if you have insurance, you cannot get immunizations at the health department. You have to go to a doctor or to a pharmacy. IMO, this is a bad idea, as many people don't have a primary care provider.
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Originally Posted by kodokan
I'm originally from the UK, where there is no chicken pox vaccine and virtually everyone gets it naturally during childhood. I am also unaware of shingles being a significant threat over there; I've always believed that, as you say, it's the presence of the pox virus in the general community that provides 'natural top-ups' to people's immunity as they age.
I was curious, so found some stats. Apparently shingles is present in the US at 0.4% of the population annually (http://meps.ahrq.gov/mepsweb/data_fi...94/stat194.pdf). The UK, on the other hand, has a rate of 0.3% of the population annually (Shingles - NHS Choices). There IS a shingles vaccination available in the UK, but it's only indicated for those over 70, and certainly isn't a mainstream thing (I didn't even realise it was available there) so I doubt there's much uptake.
This would seem to indicate that in the matter of shingles prevention, having chicken pox naturally in the population has a more preventative effect than having a vaccinated population.
The chickenpox vaccine has only been available in the US since 1995, not even 20 years. Most people who have been vaccinated are under 18. Most people (but not all) who get shingles are over 50. So the vast majority of shingles patients have not been vaccinated, but got chickenpox disease.
It is not a good idea to jump to conclusions without all the data.
The chickenpox vaccine has only been available in the US since 1995, not even 20 years. Most people who have been vaccinated are under 18. Most people (but not all) who get shingles are over 50. So the vast majority of shingles patients have not been vaccinated, but got chickenpox disease.
I think that the point that kodokan was making is that people in the US who had the chicken pox prior to the introduction of the varicella vaccine are no longer getting that natural "boost" to their immunity that people once got from being exposed to the chicken pox over and over again. This "boost" was what helped ward of shingles. People can't get that boost naturally anymore because it's now very rare to come across anyone with the varicella. Without that boost, it seems that people are coming down with shingles at younger ages and in increased numbers.
I think that we may need better education and support for women when it comes to breastfeeding. If mom had varicella as a child then the antibodies will be present in her milk and she can pass these antibodies onto her baby. This will provide increased protection to her baby for as long as she breastfeeds. I also think we need a better education campaign as to the benefits of long term breastfeeding to get rid of the stigma. Breastfeeding can protect babies when they are young. Chicken pox is most dangerous to adults. I would prefer my children to be exposed in childhood but since it is no longer common, they probably won't unless I really look for it. I suppose I am taking the approach that nearly every country outside of the US has taken which is to hold off on the chicken pox vaccine until more is known about it's long term impact and effects. There is still so much that we don't know.
It seems a favorite anti-vaccination line is that "no other country uses 'Vaccine X' ". Generally, this is untrue. For example, here is what European countries recommend about chickenpox vaccine: Vaccine Schedule (Click on varicella, the medical name for chickenpox) You will see that a fair number of countries in Europe DO recommend chickenpox vaccine, including the UK despite what someone upthread claimed to the contrary. And good grief, the vaccine has been licensed in the US for 19 years, and in Japan for 10 years prior to that, so there is almost 30 years of experience with it!
The chickenpox vaccine has only been available in the US since 1995, not even 20 years. Most people who have been vaccinated are under 18. Most people (but not all) who get shingles are over 50. So the vast majority of shingles patients have not been vaccinated, but got chickenpox disease.
It is not a good idea to jump to conclusions without all the data.
Thanks, didn't realise this and hadn't thought of that angle. Mind you, I think the hypothesis might still stand - vaccinating virtually the entire child cohort would have removed the live condition from the population within perhaps 5-10 years following introduction (most UK kids get it before school age, so the first 5 years probably almost cleared it out), meaning that for, say, the last 10-15 years, there's been no live chicken pox virus zipping around.
The argument wasn't that getting actual chicken pox was a better prevention against shingles, it's that having the virus present in the community provides regular top ups/ boosters to the immunity. So anyone in their 50s and above has presumably not come into contact with the live virus for 1-2 decades.
It still might explain why the shingles rate in the US elderly population, many of whom receive the shingles vac, is 133% higher than that in the UK, where the shingles vac is much less widely available (the NHS only offers it over age 70).
Your point about the vaccine intro date, and that the virus has only been wiped out for the last decade or so, is very interesting to me personally. Until now, I've been blithely assuming that I'm relatively safe from shingles, having spent most of my life in countries where the condition is almost universal (UK, then Switzerland). I'm now thinking, however, that I should get the shingles vac in later life, as my population exposure immunity boost might have worn off (I'm in my 40s now, and have been out of Europe for several years already).
Perhaps people should also be getting boosters of the chicken pox vaccine, maybe in their 30s..?
Thanks, didn't realise this and hadn't thought of that angle. Mind you, I think the hypothesis might still stand - vaccinating virtually the entire child cohort would have removed the live condition from the population within perhaps 5-10 years following introduction (most UK kids get it before school age, so the first 5 years probably almost cleared it out), meaning that for, say, the last 10-15 years, there's been no live chicken pox virus zipping around.
The argument wasn't that getting actual chicken pox was a better prevention against shingles, it's that having the virus present in the community provides regular top ups/ boosters to the immunity. So anyone in their 50s and above has presumably not come into contact with the live virus for 1-2 decades.
It still might explain why the shingles rate in the US elderly population, many of whom receive the shingles vac, is 133% higher than that in the UK, where the shingles vac is much less widely available (the NHS only offers it over age 70).
Your point about the vaccine intro date, and that the virus has only been wiped out for the last decade or so, is very interesting to me personally. Until now, I've been blithely assuming that I'm relatively safe from shingles, having spent most of my life in countries where the condition is almost universal (UK, then Switzerland). I'm now thinking, however, that I should get the shingles vac in later life, as my population exposure immunity boost might have worn off (I'm in my 40s now, and have been out of Europe for several years already).
Perhaps people should also be getting boosters of the chicken pox vaccine, maybe in their 30s..?
In the US, and several European countries as well, a second dose of chickenpox vaccine is required in childhood. Here in my state it's required before kindergarten entry.
The vaccine is actually a high dose of chickenpox vaccine.
No one is safe from shingles. People got it long before the vaccine came out. I got it in 1984.
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