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that 70% number will change as the minimum wage is raised. Remember this is just the starting point.
Over the long term the small businesses are going to have problems.
No, this isn't the starting point. You must not have bothered to read the linked articles and reports. It's already been long term. Progressive cities have been doing this for decades with great success. There are even national examples from several years back. It always has elicited a positive economic response.
"We" have established no such thing. You have expressed opinions that are backed up by little but arrogance and ignore most responses that have actual data you would have to dance around. In the case of the Nick Hanauer article in particular, he strings together a lot of very real statistics to back up what he is saying and he has been tremendously successful following his philosophy. You seem to always stand for big business against the less fortunate and your opinions have little substance. It's funny that you think something has been dismissed because you disagree with it.
"Statistics" and "studies" provided by a collectivist such as N.H. are worthless. They are not information. They are bits and pieces of this and that, taken out of context, and strung together to push people into believing that A is B and a thing is not what it is.
We know what Nick Hanauer is pushing. We know about the collectivist institutions that he supports. We know about his leftist-collectivist-statist philosophy. It's all in the public record. So yes, any "numbers" or "data" he presents are to be treated as what they are: lies designed to push a collectivist agenda.
There is the old saying that "figures don't lie, but liars figure". And that is what Nicky is. A liar, pushing an agenda, and doing lots of "figuring".
And all the numbers in the world will not change the fact that the minimum wage is statist-collectivist price fixing and is anathema to freedom and free people. It is confiscation of wealth. It is redistribution of wealth. And as such it is evil.
And agenda-driven "studies" and "statistics" provided by class-warfare bigots like Nick Hanauer are less than worthless in considering a topic like the minimum wage.
Also, leftist statistical manipulation is beside the point. Because the problem with the minimum wage is a moral one, and that doesn't require any numbers at all. It is morally wrong to have the state dictate and price-fix the price of labor. No studies or numbers are necessary or relevant. It is morally wrong for the state to mandate that one person pay another more than he wants to for trading time and talent. No studies or numbers are necessary or relevant.
So please, no more Nick fanboy nonsense. It's irrelevant. It's lies. It's agendas. It's manipulation. And above all, it's evil.
Not as much as the widespread loss of dignity and crushing poverty that results from a situation similar to what we had during the Industrial Revolution. The exploitation of workers by their employers was very widespread and the type of widespread poverty we are discussing ultimately hurts everyone, that is, it's lose-lose.
This quote demonstrates such a lack of knowledge of history that I can't even address it. You sound indoctrinated and college-educated (one and the same thing these days). I will point the public to some useful information on the Industrial Revolution.
"Statistics" and "studies" provided by a collectivist such as N.H. are worthless. They are not information. They are bits and pieces of this and that, taken out of context, and strung together to push people into believing that A is B and a thing is not what it is.
We know what Nick Hanauer is pushing. We know about the collectivist institutions that he supports. We know about his leftist-collectivist-statist philosophy. It's all in the public record. So yes, any "numbers" or "data" he presents are to be treated as what they are: lies designed to push a collectivist agenda.
There is the old saying that "figures don't lie, but liars figure". And that is what Nicky is. A liar, pushing an agenda, and doing lots of "figuring".
And all the numbers in the world will not change the fact that the minimum wage is statist-collectivist price fixing and is anathema to freedom and free people. It is confiscation of wealth. It is redistribution of wealth. And as such it is evil.
And agenda-driven "studies" and "statistics" provided by class-warfare bigots like Nick Hanauer are less than worthless in considering a topic like the minimum wage.
Also, leftist statistical manipulation is beside the point. Because the problem with the minimum wage is a moral one, and that doesn't require any numbers at all. It is morally wrong to have the state dictate and price-fix the price of labor. No studies or numbers are necessary or relevant. It is morally wrong for the state to mandate that one person pay another more than he wants to for trading time and talent. No studies or numbers are necessary or relevant.
So please, no more Nick fanboy nonsense. It's irrelevant. It's lies. It's agendas. It's manipulation. And above all, it's evil.
Another arrogant and unsupported response. Don't believe the statistics and reports even though they have hard data. Don't pay attention to your own life experiences. Take the word of Marc Palella (aka some guy on the Internet) instead. I find it especially humorous that you rail against collectivists and keep using the pronoun "we". MPD, maybe? If so, my apologies and I hope you receive some help. If you are just trying to use the old dashboard dog debating trick of getting people to nod as they read along, it probably works on those that prefer the same flavor Kool-Aid as you but not the rest of us. Some people like to use information to reach decisions, not just your opinions.
Another arrogant and unsupported response. Don't believe the statistics and reports even though they have hard data. Don't pay attention to your own life experiences. Take the word of Marc Palella (aka some guy on the Internet) instead. I find it especially humorous that you rail against collectivists and keep using the pronoun "we". MPD, maybe? If so, my apologies and I hope you receive some help. If you are just trying to use the old dashboard dog debating trick of getting people to nod as they read along, it probably works on those that prefer the same flavor Kool-Aid as you but not the rest of us. Some people like to use information to reach decisions, not just your opinions.
"Statistics" and "reports". By a collectivist toady with an agenda. No, I don't "believe" them. I lack Faith, Father.
But utilitarianism is a corrupt and bankrupt philosophy, so arguing it's application with respect to the minimum wage is utter futility. Arguing the effects of a morally wrong policy serves only to measure evil, not identify it.
I am identifying it. No numbers, facts, or figures are necessary. I want a future where the state DOES NOT tell one person what to pay another in trade for time and talent. It is not a proper role of government to intervene and interfere in private and free trade.
But utilitarianism is a corrupt and bankrupt philosophy, so arguing it's application with respect to the minimum wage is utter futility. Arguing the effects of a morally wrong policy serves only to measure evil, not identify it.
I am identifying it. No numbers, facts, or figures are necessary. I want a future where the state DOES NOT tell one person what to pay another in trade for time and talent. It is not a proper role of government to intervene and interfere in private and free trade.
That is an opinion piece about a completely different thing Nick Hanauer said. That was about capital gains tax and the article really falls flat in proving what he said about that wrong. So anyway, to disprove what he said about minimum wage (and he backed it up with hard data) you posted an opinion piece about something he said about another subject in another context. Classic misdirection.
"Statistics" and "studies" provided by a collectivist such as N.H. are worthless. They are not information. They are bits and pieces of this and that, taken out of context, and strung together to push people into believing that A is B and a thing is not what it is.
We know what Nick Hanauer is pushing. We know about the collectivist institutions that he supports. We know about his leftist-collectivist-statist philosophy. It's all in the public record. So yes, any "numbers" or "data" he presents are to be treated as what they are: lies designed to push a collectivist agenda.
There is the old saying that "figures don't lie, but liars figure". And that is what Nicky is. A liar, pushing an agenda, and doing lots of "figuring".
And all the numbers in the world will not change the fact that the minimum wage is statist-collectivist price fixing and is anathema to freedom and free people. It is confiscation of wealth. It is redistribution of wealth. And as such it is evil.
And agenda-driven "studies" and "statistics" provided by class-warfare bigots like Nick Hanauer are less than worthless in considering a topic like the minimum wage.
Also, leftist statistical manipulation is beside the point. Because the problem with the minimum wage is a moral one, and that doesn't require any numbers at all. It is morally wrong to have the state dictate and price-fix the price of labor. No studies or numbers are necessary or relevant. It is morally wrong for the state to mandate that one person pay another more than he wants to for trading time and talent. No studies or numbers are necessary or relevant.
So please, no more Nick fanboy nonsense. It's irrelevant. It's lies. It's agendas. It's manipulation. And above all, it's evil.
So it is only evil if lower wage people want to confiscation wealth or get wealth redistributed to them but if the rich do it is not evil? Make up your mind it you can not have it both ways. Saying you do not need studies or numbers are necessariy is just you admitting that what you are saying is your opinion not an acutall fact. Not sure why you are so adamnet on worshiping the rich you do not they could probably care less about you.
So it is only evil if lower wage people want to confiscation wealth or get wealth redistributed to them but if the rich do it is not evil? Make up your mind it you can not have it both ways. Saying you do not need studies or numbers are necessariy is just you admitting that what you are saying is your opinion not an acutall fact. Not sure why you are so adamnet on worshiping the rich you do not they could probably care less about you.
I don't want wealth redistributed to anyone rich or poor. I want he who earns and owns wealth on whatever level is available to him to keep it all. Except for that which he freely chooses to give to others. The point is freedom and private property rights.
Last edited by Marc Paolella; 07-28-2015 at 05:52 PM..
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