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Status:
"Smartened up and walked away!"
(set 23 days ago)
11,772 posts, read 5,785,673 times
Reputation: 14190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maineguy8888
You are trying hard to get the argument sidelined, which is not something I am going to participate in.
He's not sidelining anything. He's asking if you yourself have any experience with pit bulls. I'll go one further and ask if you have any experience with animals at all. Have you had a pet - do you volunteer at a shelter.
Some of you are so convinced with mindless articles that are not proof of anything because as has been stated - many breeds resemble pit bulls unlike other dogs. People know what a shepard, dob and rott looks like but even they have been misidentified by people who have only seen a picture of the breed and does not have any 1st hand experience with the breed. There are many dog breeds with the same characteristics as a pit bull.
I'm clueless when it comes to cars and guns. If I had to identify them to the police as what make the robber escaped in or what weapon he pulled - it would be an ill informed answer and most likely a guess as I can't distinguish between them. The same is true of many of these pit bull attacks - but they are all lumped into one so the media can continue to terrorize you.
He's not sidelining anything. He's asking if you yourself have any experience with pit bulls. I'll go one further and ask if you have any experience with animals at all. Have you had a pet - do you volunteer at a shelter.
Some of you are so convinced with mindless articles that are not proof of anything because as has been stated - many breeds resemble pit bulls unlike other dogs. People know what a shepard, dob and rott looks like but even they have been misidentified by people who have only seen a picture of the breed and does not have any 1st hand experience with the breed. There are many dog breeds with the same characteristics as a pit bull.
I'm clueless when it comes to cars and guns. If I had to identify them to the police as what make the robber escaped in or what weapon he pulled - it would be an ill informed answer and most likely a guess as I can't distinguish between them. The same is true of many of these pit bull attacks - but they are all lumped into one so the media can continue to terrorize you.
Partly this is intentional; the pit bull aspect of dogs that have attacked is misreported in the media. The dog will often be called something else, to hide the pit bull element.
There are some in the press who are pro-pit bull and do this.
Status:
"Smartened up and walked away!"
(set 23 days ago)
11,772 posts, read 5,785,673 times
Reputation: 14190
[quote=maineguy8888;44356413]But now you're just being silly. We are not going to ban humans from planet earth.
But again, this is a common tactic in this argument. Non sequiters, etc.[/quoteMaine -
My points are silly but yours valid - far from it bud. You are not discussing anything but only stating your opinion as fact. And as far as silliness - more than one leader throughout history has tried to eliminate certain types of humans because they threatened them or they were different - so I'm not off point.
We have Muslim extremists today that yes should be irradicated - but that doesn't mean every Muslin is bad. Not every pit is bad just like not every Muslim is bad - but I really can't continue to waste my time on closed minded people who don't answer question but deflect back onto the one questioning them. I have better things to do.
The “pit bull” itself is not unlike a wild boar. It is fool hardy to try and tame a beast. What function does the pit-bull, which has proven to be more vicious than all other breed of dog (in addition to being among the strongest) serve? Vanity? What? Your right to own it? Why? It is a weapon like a gun, but a living changing weapon. The difference is in events it goes against the intended use of "pet", it is not the human's fault. It was the dog's nature; it was the intelligence design or instinct of a vicious thinking animal.
A gun is a tool or weapon. The function of a gun is to protect or kill. Humans can control which direction a gun is pointed, or who it will take aim at. In events it goes against the intended use, it is the human's fault.
The difference is control. Pit-bulls control who they kill even under the supervision of humans. Guns are mindless.
Where do you get your information?? any links to science based, peer-reviewed research to back up your claims?? and Colleen Lynn's website doesn't count as either.....
FWIW .... The German Shepherd has a stronger bite than the pit bull.... as do many other breeds...... I can easily find the science based research to support THAT fact....
[quote=xray731;44356612]
Quote:
Originally Posted by maineguy8888
But now you're just being silly. We are not going to ban humans from planet earth.
But again, this is a common tactic in this argument. Non sequiters, etc.[/quoteMaine -
My points are silly but yours valid - far from it bud. You are not discussing anything but only stating your opinion as fact. And as far as silliness - more than one leader throughout history has tried to eliminate certain types of humans because they threatened them or they were different - so I'm not off point.
We have Muslim extremists today that yes should be irradicated - but that doesn't mean every Muslin is bad. Not every pit is bad just like not every Muslim is bad - but I really can't continue to waste my time on closed minded people who don't answer question but deflect back onto the one questioning them. I have better things to do.
Same as the Catholic priests.... because some are pedophiles, does that mean ALL are pedophiles??
and yes, xray, I have participated in a number of these threads in recent years and it is EXHAUSTING.... trying to get people who won't open their eyes or ears to see reality or hear the voice of reason......
You are trying hard to get the argument sidelined, which is not something I am going to participate in.
No, he is pointing out your use of an anecdotal fallacy. Pointing out a fallacy being used by the other side is a legitimate debate tactic. I believe you may have done this yourself a few times in this thread. Tu quoque.
Speaking of...
Quote:
Originally Posted by maineguy8888
But now you're just being silly. We are not going to ban humans from planet earth.
But again, this is a common tactic in this argument. Non sequiters, etc.
This first sentence is a classic and blatant straw man. The post you were responding to did not state or even imply that banning humans was being considered. You constructed this extreme straw man in an attempt to make the poster look silly, but it had the opposite effect for anyone paying attention. Secondly, there was no non sequitur in the post you were responding to. You could possibly say it was a slippery slope ("if you ban all dogs you won't have any chows..." etc.), but not really.
Going farther, your very first post employed:
Dicto simpliciter (sweeping generalizations... all members of a dog breed are bad),
Argumentum ad populum (appeal to public... if the public agrees with you, you must be right),
Argumentum ad misericordiam (appeal to pity... maimed children)
For what it's worth, I consider constantly pointing out logical fallacies (other than blatant ones) to be pedantic in informal arguments such as this. But for the past several pages that's all you've done... complain about fallacies (mostly that weren't actually there) while continuously committing fallacies of your own (straw man, personal attacks, cherry picking, etc.). I deplore double standards. This thread will be closed soon.
Last edited by An Einnseanair; 06-09-2016 at 04:09 PM..
Location: Free State of Florida, Support our police
5,859 posts, read 3,295,993 times
Reputation: 9145
Quote:
Originally Posted by maineguy8888
Partly this is intentional; the pit bull aspect of dogs that have attacked is misreported in the media. The dog will often be called something else, to hide the pit bull element.
There are some in the press who are pro-pit bull and do this.
You must be joking. The media loves ratings and money. Pit Bull attacks are sensational to them. Again I bet that if follow ups were done there would be some attacks that are not pit bulls at all. All you have done is bash people that don't agree with you. Somehow you are just smarter than anyone else. When asked to talk about your real life experience with this breed you simply cant. You can point to two dogs in your neighborhood. Then when you cant answer questions you simply try to deflect answering it because you know you cant.
Location: Stuck on the East Coast, hoping to head West
4,640 posts, read 11,932,465 times
Reputation: 9885
To the OP, going all the way back to the original post. I get your point. I love dogs. I have grown up with many different breeds. I would never own a pit bull. I don't trust the breed. I don't trust the breeders. I don't like the perception regarding them. I personally know of 2 that attacked without provocation and, prior to the attacks, had been loving family dogs. That level of dangerous unpredictability is a deal breaker for me.
There's a reason why golden retrievers aren't trained to dog fight.
It's worth noting that pit bulls got their name because their breed was created to take down BULLS and/or other large animals. They are bred to hold on and withstand pain until the goal is met. They also have a late maturity and the gene that drives them to attack other animals may not even show up until they are 2 years old. Check out this website (and it's a pro pitbull site) Pit Bull Myths - Debunked - American Pit Bull Foundation
I haven't read thru all of this, but the bigger issue I have is valuing animal life over human life.
Society is finished because of pitbulls?lol I could give plenty of reasons why society has been gone for awhile but I'll give one for now...TV. Look at what people watch and is popular on TV these days. There is no family friendly shows where a family and younger children can sit and watch together. I grew up in the 80s where family sitcoms and game shows were all over the TV. Today it's sex, violence, drugs, drama and fights on just about every channel. Why is it like that? Because society wants that because society gets more evil and care free as years go by. Nobody has standards or morals anymore.
It's worth noting that pit bulls got their name because their breed was created to take down BULLS and/or other large animals. They are bred to hold on and withstand pain until the goal is met. They also have a late maturity and the gene that drives them to attack other animals may not even show up until they are 2 years old. Check out this website (and it's a pro pitbull site) Pit Bull Myths - Debunked - American Pit Bull Foundation
Welcome to the fray. That's where the "bull" part came from. The "pit" part of the American Pit Bull Terrier name comes from fighting pits. Most say these were dog-fighting pits, but others claim it comes from "ratting" pits where a dog tried to kill as many rats as possible in a pit in a short time frame. A terrier in general is a fearless hunting/protection dog.
The generic name "pit bull" is applied by the media and anti-pit-bull people to any number of breeds and mixed-breeds somewhat similar to the American Pit Bull Terrier (American Bulldog, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, etc.).
The reality is that more APBT's pass standardized temperament testing than other breeds (i.e., they are generally more docile towards humans), but the equally-valid reality is that pit bulls in general are the dog of choice for criminals and irresponsible owners who want to train a "tough-looking fighting dog". And since all dogs can bite humans and all dogs can get into fights with other dogs, the pit-bull's strength can cause major damage in a hurry.
But while I don't personally own and will never own a pit-type dog (I personally prefer German Shepherds), the idea of breed-specific legislation banning pit-types is ridiculous. I have no problem with general dog/animal legislation (leash laws, property-line restraints, liability laws, etc.). But if you ban all pits then the criminals and irresponsible owners will simply pick another dog breed to train to bite, and the total number of dog bites won't go down. It's like banning all 9mm Lugers and expecting the total number of gunshot victims to go down; or banning Ford F150 pickup trucks and expecting the total number of automobile accidents to go down.
Last edited by An Einnseanair; 06-09-2016 at 07:16 PM..
Incidentally, the title of the thread is incorrect; the debate isn't about pit bulls. If you read the OP, the actual debate is whether society is "finished" because people are passionate about a particular topic that the OP disagrees with. Specifically:
Quote:
Again, please try not to argue too much about the breed itself, whether its jaws really do lock, etc. etc. My thesis is that the collective society's "take" on pit bulls is a significant and important indicator about our society (as some specific social issues can be, from time to time). And what it means is that our society is finished.
Removing superfluous words:
"My thesis is that the collective society's 'take' on [specific social issue] is a significant and important indicator about our society that means our society is finished."
So not about pit bulls. Except the thread title and 95% of the OP concentrates on pit bulls.
Last edited by An Einnseanair; 06-09-2016 at 07:21 PM..
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