Why must there be "White Guilt" to resolve racism? (generations, lawyer)
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a constant barrage of rhetoric that pushes the idea that I should feel guilty for being white. that because I'm white I owe someone something. no one owes anyone anything. since when do we owe people just because ?
I didn't create this system. put out a policy that levels the playing field I'll probably vote for it so long as someone isn't shouting in my ear, "if you don't vote that way I'll go on twitter an tell everyone you're racist". obviously making a point so please don't take me literally.
and I'm not gonna spend hours scouring "proof". if you don't believe this is something going on, so be it.
I don't know what "white guilt" is all about, except as an excuse to absolve oneself from a need to deal with a current situation.
Once, when I was an active duty military supervisor, I transferred to a new unit as the superintendent of an Intelligence and Systems training facility with twenty instructors working for me.
After about a week, I picked up on the fact that there was a buttload of acrimony between the instructors. I did some investigation--a lot of interviews with a lot of butt-hurt people-- and discovered the reason was this:
My predecessor had the practice of assigning the male instructors to learn and teach the hardcore IT subjects but assigned the female instructors to learn and teach only the "fluff" subjects (annual Law of Armed Conflict and such).
Well, okay. So the previous guy in my job screwed up, and I was holding the green weinie that he'd cooked up.
Did I feel guilty? Certainly not. But I was the one there then, so it was my job to fix the problem, regardless of the fact that I didn't create it.
I have absolutely no white guilt. My ancestors never owned slaves, they were Irish immigrants fleeing persecution in Ireland and didn't exactly live the life of Reilly when they arrived here.
Until we can let the past rest in the past we will never move ahead.
It is not liberalism that is a problem. it is the extreme forceful push of their ideology that is not okay imo because due to social media, it is now entangled in people's livelihoods. people getting fired for questioning strategies of the very causes they may very well agree with. things have gotten out of control and I think that attempting to emotionally manipulate people is the very angle that is pushing otherwise progressive people towards whatever right leanings they may have.
I think it's a faulty strategy to guilt people to get what you want. that is my position. I'm curious for why emotional manipulation might be the strategy of choice for any cause.
You didn't answer my question so I don't think you have any interest in gaining new perspective.
It is not liberalism that is a problem. it is the extreme forceful push of their ideology that is not okay imo because due to social media, it is now entangled in people's livelihoods. people getting fired for questioning strategies of the very causes they may very well agree with. things have gotten out of control and I think that attempting to emotionally manipulate people is the very angle that is pushing otherwise progressive people towards whatever right leanings they may have.
I think it's a faulty strategy to guilt people to get what you want. that is my position. I'm curious for why emotional manipulation might be the strategy of choice for any cause.
OP, I couldn't quote your responses to my post, because when you respond within the post the way you did, it doesn't "quote". But I'll do my best to address your main concerns.
Marginalized communities didn't have a responsibility in how things turned out, i.e. they're not responsible for their own marginalization, which is what you're asking, because historically, from the get-go, they were rendered powerless by a dominant society that wanted to stay dominant, and took steps to ensure it stayed that way. Do they have a responsibility now? Well, how do you know they're not trying to improve their circumstances and address problems in their communities, if you don't go into those communities or otherwise try to inform yourself constructively? And even so, in spite of some good efforts being made, there are still issues that need to be addressed to power structures, to eliminate hindrances in the quest to improve collective circumstances.
Why the emotional manipulation, why not just ask for what they want? I don't know where you're seeing so much manipulation. You seem kind of distraught, as though you feel like you're being bombarded. But some of what you see as manipulation could be attempts to raise awareness of existing problems, as a first step to getting down to specifics, and presenting a list of concrete steps that need to be taken. But how likely are some of the people in control of resources, services and policies to change, just because a group asks nicely? If someone's discriminating against a certain group in housing, let's say, are they likely to change, just because someone asks them to be fair and observe non-discrimination statutes (if there are any)? Often, change only comes about when it's forced to, through the judicial system, and even then, bad decisions are made. Sometimes, even if cases are won in court, enforcement doesn't follow. (Famously, the Cherokees won in the Federal Supreme Courth 3 times, in the 1830's, but that didn't stop Andrew Jackson from forcing their removal to Oklahoma, in defiance of the new laws passed by the Court.)
Anyway, what you're asking is a more complex matter than your simple question makes it sound. I think as a first step, everyone needs to take responsibility for educating themselves about the issues, and about the history that lead to the current situations. In the current climate, though, a lot of people feel that informing themselves, such as taking specific history courses in the local college, say, would be opening themselves up to someone else's bias. People need to open their hearts, and not be defensive.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 10-12-2017 at 02:21 PM..
I take part in a message board elsewhere online and there are lots of posters who promote white guilt. They even said white people should buy houses for black families or grant their house to someone in a will after they die, to be give to a black family who is poor. The problem with this is that houses cost money even they're already paid for. A poor family would find themselves saddled with home repair bills, needing to buy a new roof, house insurance, homeowners dues, etc. So it's a very short-sighted solution. I'm all for charity and helping people but sometimes, just handing people things is not the answer. I also think simply being white doesn't mean someone has had privilege all of their life. Many white people have hardships and live in poverty.
I have absolutely no white guilt. My ancestors never owned slaves, they were Irish immigrants fleeing persecution in Ireland and didn't exactly live the life of Reilly when they arrived here..
I think even if someone's ancestors did own slaves, it has absolutely nothing to do with who they are now. They shouldn't feel guilt over something their ancestors did. The fact is, slavery still goes on today worldwide and it's not simply a relic of American history.
at what point does a community have the right to infringe on the rights of others to level their playing ground? helping themselves means to hurt others? it is not against the law to be an *******. why do people insist on changing things that are not within their control?
Here's an important piece, that could be its own thread. Could you give a couple of examples of infringing on the rights of others, when a community or group tries to address wrongs or improve their opportunities?
Changing things not within their control? How does anyone know what's within their control, until they try? For example, there were lots of people who said the Jim Crow system couldn't be changed, it's the law, the majority is in control, tough luck for the minority. But great changes were achieved, in spite of all odds. People have the right to seek to improve their status in society, individually or collectively, don't they, by lawful means?
It's not against the law to be a jerk, until some kind of behavior towards others has a potentially legal impact. Denying housing to someone on the basis of ethnicity, for example. In your private life, you can say whatever you want, associate with whomever you want and exclude whomever you want. When acting in an official capacity of some sort, excluding people by religion, gender, age or ethnicity (depending on the circumstances) is against the law. What kinds of things did you mean, when you said, "not within their control"?
Each of your questions is a big enough topic that it could support its own thread, just saying. These are not simple matters.
I take part in a message board elsewhere online and there are lots of posters who promote white guilt. They even said white people should buy houses for black families or grant their house to someone in a will after they die, to be give to a black family who is poor. The problem with this is that houses cost money even they're already paid for. A poor family would find themselves saddled with home repair bills, needing to buy a new roof, house insurance, homeowners dues, etc. So it's a very short-sighted solution. I'm all for charity and helping people but sometimes, just handing people things is not the answer. I also think simply being white doesn't mean someone has had privilege all of their life. Many white people have hardships and live in poverty.
I think if educational opportunity were available, and there were good job prospects after a degree or two were in hand, that would do a lot to dispel this kind of sentiment. People would be too busy throwing themselves into an education, lol. When sponsors come into inner-city highschools, and promise kids guaranteed college scholarships in their HS freshman year, suddenly, a LOT of kids buckle down, and start taking school seriously. Hopelessness breeds all kinds of problems. Hope + real incentives help resolve problems.
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These are not simple matters.