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Old 02-24-2018, 05:37 PM
 
13,395 posts, read 13,501,758 times
Reputation: 35712

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All this talk of school shootings and arming teacher and staff. Let's walk through this.

I'm a crazy school shooter. My goal is to kill many people. I don't care about my life as I know this can end in either of two ways: I kill myself or the police kill me. Sure, I'll flee if given the chance, but I accept that I probably won't make it out alive.

So, I enter the school, walk into the nearest classroom and unloaded with my automatic weapon. I kill 10 kids.

Now, the teacher, who is armed, has a first priority to make sure the kids are okay. He/she may get a few shots off. They may even take down the shooter.

The shooter is down, but so what? There are still 10 dead kids. The shooter had the jump on everyone at the school and still was able to inflict damage.

Every staff member in the school could have had a weapon but because the shooter will always have the jump, the shooter will always be able to kill people.

So what is the benefit of the armed staff? They may reduce the number killed but they cannot totally prevent the carnage.

Thoughts?
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Old 02-24-2018, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Virginia-Shenandoah Valley
7,670 posts, read 14,239,065 times
Reputation: 7464
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
All this talk of school shootings and arming teacher and staff. Let's walk through this.

I'm a crazy school shooter. My goal is to kill many people. I don't care about my life as I know this can end in either of two ways: I kill myself or the police kill me. Sure, I'll flee if given the chance, but I accept that I probably won't make it out alive.

So, I enter the school, walk into the nearest classroom and unloaded with my automatic weapon. I kill 10 kids.

Now, the teacher, who is armed, has a first priority to make sure the kids are okay. He/she may get a few shots off. They may even take down the shooter.

The shooter is down, but so what? There are still 10 dead kids. The shooter had the jump on everyone at the school and still was able to inflict damage.

Every staff member in the school could have had a weapon but because the shooter will always have the jump, the shooter will always be able to kill people.

So what is the benefit of the armed staff? They may reduce the number killed but they cannot totally prevent the carnage.

Thoughts?
Really? This isn't worth anything?
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Old 02-24-2018, 06:54 PM
 
13,395 posts, read 13,501,758 times
Reputation: 35712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigfoot424 View Post
Really? This isn't worth anything?
That's not the narrative being used by those suggesting we arm teachers. The language being used is indicating that armed staff will somehow PREVENT school shootings as shooters would be too afraid of getting shot.

Shooters don't care one bit about getting shot.
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,553 posts, read 10,618,310 times
Reputation: 36572
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
That's not the narrative being used by those suggesting we arm teachers. The language being used is indicating that armed staff will somehow PREVENT school shootings as shooters would be too afraid of getting shot.

Shooters don't care one bit about getting shot.
Having armed teachers, and having people know that some of the teachers are armed, might act as a deterrent for any would-be shooters who entertain the notion that they might somehow be able to escape the shooting alive.

For the rest of them, you're right, having armed teachers won't eliminate fatalities. But it could reduce them. Instead of 17 dead such as in Florida, there might be "only" 7 dead. Small comfort to the loved ones of those 7, but huge comfort to the 10 that would have otherwise died were it not for the presence of an armed teacher.
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:26 PM
 
5,479 posts, read 2,118,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post


So, I enter the school, walk into the nearest classroom and unloaded with my automatic weapon. I kill 10 kids.
So how/where diid you get an automatic weapon?
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Old 02-25-2018, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Northern Maine
5,466 posts, read 3,063,037 times
Reputation: 8011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigfoot424 View Post
Really? This isn't worth anything?
Not much.
If you can't tell the difference between soft targets and hard targets,
School vs airport, there's no sense trying to explain.
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Old 02-25-2018, 08:07 AM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
4,005 posts, read 2,081,166 times
Reputation: 7714
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
That's not the narrative being used by those suggesting we arm teachers. The language being used is indicating that armed staff will somehow PREVENT school shootings as shooters would be too afraid of getting shot.

Shooters don't care one bit about getting shot.
Its a good idea. What defective mind has walked into a school with the intent to kill and maim thinking anyone at all might be armed and able to kill them?

Maybe there should be SWAT officers at all entrances to schools, with detectors set up and a publicized order to shoot to kill? I'm not sure teachers should be armed.

I know it sounds harsh, and probably not likely to happen, but it would definitely be a deterrent.
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Old 02-25-2018, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Central IL
20,726 posts, read 16,360,890 times
Reputation: 50379
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
Not much.
If you can't tell the difference between soft targets and hard targets,
School vs airport, there's no sense trying to explain.
Haha - yeah, even Trump knows the difference now - he used this newly learned term a dozen times in his last news conference. Whether he was showing off or just repeating it to himself to be sure he had it memorized remains to be seen.

The problem is that desperate people (aka most terrorists [recruited cannon fodder] and mass killers) don't care if they die so they will not be deterred so easily by the "threat" of a few armed teacher and we are stupid to think so.
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Old 02-25-2018, 11:41 AM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,656 posts, read 28,667,075 times
Reputation: 50525
A crazed shooter doesn't even stop to think about whether or not he'll be killed. He's too caught up in wanting to kill people. He is not rational, not thinking.

So a teacher with a gun is not a deterrent.

You're right--the shooter will get the first shot and probably more. AND the shooter does not care, gun free or armed.
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Old 02-25-2018, 12:29 PM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
5,511 posts, read 4,474,202 times
Reputation: 5770
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
Having armed teachers, and having people know that some of the teachers are armed, might act as a deterrent for any would-be shooters who entertain the notion that they might somehow be able to escape the shooting alive.

For the rest of them, you're right, having armed teachers won't eliminate fatalities. But it could reduce them. Instead of 17 dead such as in Florida, there might be "only" 7 dead. Small comfort to the loved ones of those 7, but huge comfort to the 10 that would have otherwise died were it not for the presence of an armed teacher.
True. But further debates have said if we can do a better job of keeping arms out of these people, we could've reduced the fatalities from 7 to 0... or however many the "shooter" would manage to kill without firearms.
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