Why Do People View Porn Stars/Strippers Negatively? (generation, independence, government)
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Gotcha....so, by your prudish, narrow minded take a Sports Illustrated swimsuit magazine, Victoria's secret catalog, etc. are porno/sex magazines and any movie (or tv show) that shows scantily or bikini clad women(Baywatch anyone??), naked or nearly naked/topless women are porno/sex films, right?? If not, why not in your convoluted thinking?? I mean, there's no doubt many teen boys and even men (and, I'm sure, some females of the "alternate lifestyle") "get off" or are excited/titillated by such images in such magazines or films.
We can take the stupidity you espouse even further by then claiming that famous works of art or sculpture (try looking at Rodin's "The Kiss" ) that exhibit nudity or show a man & woman naked in some kind of pseudo sexual position are porn or "sex" and should fall under the "porn/sex" labeling.
Are you really trying to claim that "The Kiss" is not about sex? Your state of denial is monumental.
That's the question you come up with to my expansive answer?? (with questions you apparently can't answer or don't want to address)....after your long winded other responses in this thread?
No, you get too reactive when I include a narrative so decided to keep it simple.
Yes, sex sells but the sexual content in movies isn't the primary intent of Baywatch, Victoria secret etc. It's a marketing ploy to sell a product (that isn't sex).
Swimsuit Illustrated? Yeah, I consider those images soft porn. Can't comment on the magazine itself as I've never seen it.
Fifty Shades of Yawn is soft porn IMO
Stripping is soft porn IMO
Now, answer my question. Is playboy magazine porn even though the models are not engaging in sex?
Last edited by rogue.red; 03-17-2019 at 04:05 AM..
^ This would be fine if it was as simple as the pictures you are describing BUT usually "stripping" entails more than just dancing sexy or her image only being used for interest by the individuals that are viewing them. It never is just dancing - might start that way but never ends that way. Plus when you have your picture taken it is only in front of a select few not the strangers that come into strip club daily to see you do your thing.
I want to take this back to the original question of why are they looked down upon by society? I consider myself to be a fairly attractive "normal" woman that grew up in the "good girl" mind set and so at first that had a major effect on my making personal decisions BUT as I matured I watched girls that I knew as well as girls that my son has gone to school with make the choice to get involved in this type of work. Not one of them changed their life for the better - after a year not one looked happy and full of life instead their eyes looked tired and blank. It was like their former self was gone and literally sucked out of them.
So I was left with wondering why would a person make this choice? With all the information available today they know the risk involved and I feel like I judge them for making a bad decision willingly. Whether it is out of greed or ignorance I still do not want to endorse this type of choice by acting like it is okay. They are not sexual saviors or walking a path to women being on the same playing field as men with promiscuity - instead they keep women down and thought of as just a way for men to satisfy their sexual desire.
As I said before demeaning yourself for any amount of money is like selling your soul to the devil or just plain selling yourself- I like to think more of myself and wish they did too so as not to do this type of work. It to me is like the carnival that came with the deformed people and people would come pay to get some sick thrill from viewing them - just not good for them or the viewers to participate. On a humane level. If this is so great well then why get married or have relationships? We can all go somewhere and do whatever it takes to make the dollar - just think of how our society would look from that view point and tell me that this should not be frowned upon.
This is one of the most disgusting responses. You just referred to disabled people as circus freaks. But that's what societies does; lines up those that don't fit the thin edge of the wedge in front of circus mirrors to distort and magnify their flaws as a way of making themselves look better.
Sex work is psychologically demanding and damaging because of people like you. It is the shaming and social rejection that causes the most harm. If sex work was legal, regulated and socially accepted then it would be no different than any other job. This kind of work doesn't keep women down, you're doing that by shaming women for their choices. Every time you judge and shame a women for how she uses her body you're encouraging and supporting the belief that a woman's body is not her own. Women are the most vicious in their condemnation of other women and it has nothing to do with morals.
What are you referring to exactly?...any strip club (if not a run down hidden basement joint) will not allow anything to go on in the club or dance/stage area....touching is also not allowed. The girls don't want it (they want the money) and the club is always fearful of being shut down or losing their alcohol/operation license by letting anything other than dancing/exhibition by the strippers. There is always a chance an undercover ABC agent or member of a local agency making sure they don't violate the ordinances they operate under might be present and they won't take the chance....not in a club open to the public.
Please tell me you don't actually believe this. It simply isn't true. While the clubs may not technically 'allow' it, many will certainly turn a blind eye to it.
Many of those girls that are in it for the money have no qualms about being touched if it means they will increase their take home. Not saying they all become prostitutes because obviously they don't, but this 'good girl' stripper ideal isn't reality either. I imagine the truth lies somewhere in the middle for most strippers.
Are you really trying to claim that "The Kiss" is not about sex? Your state of denial is monumental.
Are you not right in the head or something?? Or can't you comprehend the point I was trying to make? So you can understand it simply...YES, Rodin's "The Kiss" is totally about sex and is a sexual image. My POINT is most people/society would never describe that as "porn" but as art and treat it as high culture even though it is sexual in display. SO...my question was/is...if that isn't "porn" then why should stripping be considered so?? It's a display of bodies (like "The Kiss" - although live unlike same) meant to signal/project erotic/sexual thoughts and/or may result in the arousing of the person viewing it. So...double standard...YES!
Same thing goes for the SI swimsuit thing/photos (and there are others in the SI issues of naked but body painted models) I just posted above as well as the other magazines, films, etc I mentioned which exhibit arousing, enticing sexualized images but are NOT considered porno mags or films. So, if they can't be or are not considered porn in normal society, how can stripping be??....and, again, it's not if you ask most people but some of you hard headed ones here insist on maintaining it is.
No, you get too reactive when I include a narrative so decided to keep it simple.
Yes, sex sells but the sexual content in movies isn't the primary intent of Baywatch, Victoria secret etc. It's a marketing ploy to sell a product (that isn't sex).
Swimsuit Illustrated? Yeah, I consider those images soft porn. Can't comment on the magazine itself as I've never seen it.
Fifty Shades of Yawn is soft porn IMO
Stripping is soft porn IMO
Now, answer my question. Is playboy magazine porn even though the models are not engaging in sex?
Well...then, based on your very own definitions, there's the answer which we should be able to agree on...Playboy then should be considered "soft porn" as it is really not any different (and in some cases tamer than many R or NC-17 movies) than what you have classified as same.
"Full porn" or "hardcore porn" would then include Hustler magazine and those like it, XXX movies/vids and private sex/swinger clubs but EXCLUDE strippers/strip clubs.
To end it, let us agree that strippers/stripping are on the soft core side - even though the other things you have labeled as same are not classified in society as "soft porn" but fall into the "regular" category by most - so my original argument is still valid - if they are not then stripping is not.
So...on the main point I agree with you...stripping should be considered soft porn for lack of any other descriptor...but, even while I agree with that, the fact that everything else you labeled (and I gave as examples) is not considered by most in the soft porn category proves that there is a double standard about stripping and it gets pigeon-holed by some (i.e; the righteous, uptight posters here) as "porn". Yet they're willing to disregard or give a pass to other, undeniably the same type of content/images/acts not hold them in such low regard due to their narrow minded judgment.....hypocrisy defined.
Please tell me you don't actually believe this. It simply isn't true. While the clubs may not technically 'allow' it, many will certainly turn a blind eye to it.
Many of those girls that are in it for the money have no qualms about being touched if it means they will increase their take home. Not saying they all become prostitutes because obviously they don't, but this 'good girl' stripper ideal isn't reality either. I imagine the truth lies somewhere in the middle for most strippers.
Well...I guess a lot depends on where you are...my experiences in NY and NJ have shown me I have to believe it..they are very strict about the no touching rules and will not "turn a blind eye to it". I'm sure there are cases when it's been done and not noticed and the girl hasn't said anything but that's a big risk to take because if she does (or it is seen by management) you are out the door. Again, these are not the dive strip joints hidden in some back alley where I'm sure it's not the same but if you go to some of the well run/established places in the NY/NJ metro it's the way it's done. And yes, there are lap dances but every time I've seen or had one done the dancers are very clear to say "No touching".
I'm picking Larry likes to frequent strip clubs but is in serious denial about it all.
There are no strip clubs anywhere near my home, but the juncos are having an orgy at the bird feeder. Sorry I can't help with your sexual fantasies. Unless you get off on feathers.
Well...I guess a lot depends on where you are...my experiences in NY and NJ have shown me I have to believe it..they are very strict about the no touching rules and will not "turn a blind eye to it". I'm sure there are cases when it's been done and not noticed and the girl hasn't said anything but that's a big risk to take because if she does (or it is seen by management) you are out the door. Again, these are not the dive strip joints hidden in some back alley where I'm sure it's not the same but if you go to some of the well run/established places in the NY/NJ metro it's the way it's done. And yes, there are lap dances but every time I've seen or had one done the dancers are very clear to say "No touching".
I'm in NJ. Most of the clubs will turn a blind eye... either in the lapdance room or towards OTC. My friends work those clubs. A couple of the clubs are run by people I know. In other higher end clubs like in NYC, not so much... they have more to loose if LEO gets involved. Lots of officers frequent the clubs too.... which I personally don't like as they can easily blackmail the dancers even though I've never heard of that happening.
When I lived in TX, not as much... but it does happen I am sure. That was a long time ago.
With that said.... Not all dancers do anything more than dance. A lot simply dance. They find it annoying when they are up front with a customer and they still try to cross boundaries in the lapdance room.
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