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All good posts! A lot of things to think about here... and that's great, I love to think about these sorts of things --weigh the options, run through some 'what if's'... good stuff.
It's not so much that I'm opposed to our current two party system, but what they have become.
To me, it's sort of like unions. I think they started out well, but have far outlived their usefullness. On BOTH sides of the isle is such partisan garbage and lies while our country is close to ruin. And yet it gets worse and worse with no real chance of hope of anything more than typical bandaid solutions.
To that end, I think if we had a strong third party it would help bring some balance & consensus making in government. But the difficulties of getting a party to that level is very daunting in this day & age. It would have to start with a very well known & strong leader and hundreds of millions of dollars.
Lastly, I do fully understand the inherent problems with coalition governments, but sine our two party government has failed, adding a third party couldn't hurt.
Lastly, as for Ron Paul, I gave him a lot of consideration last election, but in the end while his message was much clearer than either Obama or McCain, it failed to stick with me.
There is actually only one party, the republicrats or the demopublicans. Both have the same agenda, destroy the Constitution. All governments become more burdensome as they get older. Democracy or mob rule is just as bad as totalitarianism. The Constitutional system we were supposed to have would have protected the rights of the individual. Now we have a closed loop system where politicians are recycled and only those approved by the elite can enter the arena. You or I have no say anymore, even if we are trying to defend the Constitution. Ron Paul was trying to educate the public about the Constitution, but the average American is too afraid to try something other than the status quo. So as for the "two" party system, two wrongs do not make a right. They are both losers that are leading us to a hole that will swallow the Republic and ruin our lives.
I like the idea of dividing the country into a free market zone and the rest in the current system. The free market zone will become an economic powerhouse while the other part will continue to deterriorate. Only the free market combined with an honest monetary system can provide the highest standard of living for everyone. Democrats and Republicans are fighting hard to assure our failure. Bailouts anyone?
There is actually only one party, the republicrats or the demopublicans. Both have the same agenda, destroy the Constitution. All governments become more burdensome as they get older. Democracy or mob rule is just as bad as totalitarianism. The Constitutional system we were supposed to have would have protected the rights of the individual. Now we have a closed loop system where politicians are recycled and only those approved by the elite can enter the arena. You or I have no say anymore, even if we are trying to defend the Constitution. Ron Paul was trying to educate the public about the Constitution, but the average American is too afraid to try something other than the status quo. So as for the "two" party system, two wrongs do not make a right. They are both losers that are leading us to a hole that will swallow the Republic and ruin our lives.
I like the idea of dividing the country into a free market zone and the rest in the current system. The free market zone will become an economic powerhouse while the other part will continue to deterriorate. Only the free market combined with an honest monetary system can provide the highest standard of living for everyone. Democrats and Republicans are fighting hard to assure our failure. Bailouts anyone?
Hear hear! It was Patrick Henry who said "Give me liberty or give me death!" in which the crowd responded "To arms! to arms!" To me that is a patriot. If you want a good read, "Red State, Blue State, Rich State, Poor State". It shows the irony of the two party system where one celebrates a socialistic model and cooperation yet the richest and most competitive of states vote for them and another which celebrates individual liberties and hard work yet the richest people and the poorest states vote for them. I think our government has failed us in many ways, but they are also some of the smartest people in government, it's not without a reason. Washington is only there to appease the lobbyists and reap their wealth and Congress is only there to get congress re-elected. It's not these people don't know what they are doing, in fact they know what they are doing better than the American people.
I’m just curious as to how many of you out there reject both the modern liberal and modern conservative camps (for the most part)? How many of you aren’t happy with the two party system we have (yes, there are other parties, but they are not really factors in the overall political scene right now)?
Although there are certain aspects of both parties that I can relate too, for the most part, I am very unhappy with the ‘ideal social system’ that either party would bring if it were in absolute power. Speaking in very broad terms, I think the conservative ideal is far too light on cooperation and too heavy on competition--I find it a bit ‘heartless’ in several respects. And, frankly, the liberal ideal as of late really scares me. I find them elitist and patronizing in many cases, and guided far too much by emotion and not enough by logic or common sense.
Although I’m not affiliated, I feel Ron Paul is the closest thing to reason and sanity in government right now--not that I agree with everything he says, but it’s clear he relies more on his brain and logic, and less on emotion and smooth talk.
But how about you? I want to hear your feelings if you are ‘partyless.’ What makes you dislike BOTH parties? Are you libertarian, anarchist, a cooperative society advocate, nihilist, or something that doesn’t even have a fancy name??? How would your ideal society function? Describe your Utopia! I want to compare my idea of utopia (way too long to post) with some of yours.
(((Note: And PLEASE, if you are a democrat or republican, don’t break into a slamfest here. And don’t interrogate me about my above statement; I want to hear from others. I am genuinely curious about ‘partyless’ people out there and their social/political views.)))
Well, I reject both major parties, but I still embrace conservatism. We dont have a major party thats conservative anymore.
I think Ron Paul is the only one that tried who should have even been considered. Cant see how a person could grow up in a country like this, see whats been done to it by liberalism from both parties & not understand that the only hope for us to retain our freedom & liberties is to return to a constitutional conservative type gov't.
My ideal society would have people taking care of themselves & the govt in the backround minding its own affairs. Congress in my ideal society would gather regularly each 5 years but be available at any time in the case of emergency. It would not be a full time paying job, they would be expected to earn a living in the economy they created & serve because they wanted to help the country instead of creating personal power.
My ideal society would have the govt, congress, state & local legislature vfenced in unquestionably by the constitution. If there was any little chance of a law infringing in any way, no matter how insignificant to you or me, on anybodies civil rights it gets overturned immediately & anybody incarcerated by that law be released & his record cleared.
Any official that voted for a law that was found unconstitutional would be removed from office immediately with a permanant record recording their attempt at surpressing the people & violating their oath of office.
Any judges that convicted, prosecutors that prosecuted & LEO that enforced such laws should also be surmarilly dismissed with notes as to why put into permanant record.
In my society the gov't & all public servants would answer to the people, never the other way around. Corruption in gov't would be a capitol offense as would be any abuse of power, from building officials to the President.
In my society welfare would not exist. If people want to help the poor they will thru charity or directly. If you need to tax them for it then they dont want to help & you are stealing from Peter to pay Paul.
I don't especially care about how many parties are available, just that many people seem to blindly follow along with the leaders of the parties they have come accustomed to. People say Republicans/Democrats are the best, without even looking at what each candidate intends to do...just that they belong to a certain party, and the opposite party is evil. Personally I look for the candidate with experience, education, and intentions that match what I would like to see happen no matter of political affiliation.
As for 3rd parties, I really think many suffer a bad public relations image from trying to get anyone squeezed in the slot against the established parties. I've lived in many places that seem to push the independent voice pretty hard, such as Portland and Boulder, and I've always found it hard to put my faith in their nominees. I know from the last election many had very little leadership experience, many had very little job experience, and the positions each took were pretty radical. I remember the recent election where the education post had nominees as school board chairperson, principal, housewife who never had a job (3rd party)...or business development had a lawyer, businessman, and a hermit (3rd party). The candidates must be on par with the established parties candidates to even have a chance.
I’m just curious as to how many of you out there reject both the modern liberal and modern conservative camps (for the most part)? How many of you aren’t happy with the two party system we have (yes, there are other parties, but they are not really factors in the overall political scene right now)?
Although there are certain aspects of both parties that I can relate too, for the most part, I am very unhappy with the ‘ideal social system’ that either party would bring if it were in absolute power. Speaking in very broad terms, I think the conservative ideal is far too light on cooperation and too heavy on competition--I find it a bit ‘heartless’ in several respects. And, frankly, the liberal ideal as of late really scares me. I find them elitist and patronizing in many cases, and guided far too much by emotion and not enough by logic or common sense.
Although I’m not affiliated, I feel Ron Paul is the closest thing to reason and sanity in government right now--not that I agree with everything he says, but it’s clear he relies more on his brain and logic, and less on emotion and smooth talk.
But how about you? I want to hear your feelings if you are ‘partyless.’ What makes you dislike BOTH parties? Are you libertarian, anarchist, a cooperative society advocate, nihilist, or something that doesn’t even have a fancy name??? How would your ideal society function? Describe your Utopia! I want to compare my idea of utopia (way too long to post) with some of yours.
(((Note: And PLEASE, if you are a democrat or republican, don’t break into a slamfest here. And don’t interrogate me about my above statement; I want to hear from others. I am genuinely curious about ‘partyless’ people out there and their social/political views.)))
I voted for Ron Paul in the primary to shake things up, then after he lost, I voted for Bob Barr in the general election. Germany has a system where you vote only for party in the lower house and the parties that get 5% or more of the national vote are guaranteed a share of the seats in the lower house equal to their voting share. That way, people can vote for a third party without feeling like their vote is being thrown away. I think we should do something like that to fix this pathetic system of "vote for the lesser of two evils".
I voted for Ron Paul in the primary to shake things up, then after he lost, I voted for Bob Barr in the general election. Germany has a system where you vote only for party in the lower house and the parties that get 5% or more of the national vote are guaranteed a share of the seats in the lower house equal to their voting share. That way, people can vote for a third party without feeling like their vote is being thrown away. I think we should do something like that to fix this pathetic system of "vote for the lesser of two evils".
usually i feel like it is the lesser of a dozen or so evils; gets hard to juggle, and who knows in the end whether the one you thought was the lesser evil will actually turn out to be the mad-cackling overlord.
democrats and republicans annoy the hell out of me; i can't stand it when people marry themselves to a political party like they would a religion or a spouse. in fact, i think in a lot of ways, some people are more fanatically defensive of their political views than they are their own marriages, ignoring personality problems, criminal actions, and blatant ignorance, when they're more than irritated with those same (and lesser) qualities in their spouse.
i'm not sure why we haven't learned in all of these years how broken and useless partisan politics are. g. washington told us it would ruin us, but here we are, still trucking happily down that road. we complain about our crooked 'representatives' and their scheming, but go right on with the same old system.
do we think that they are going to change it? no, of course not. they're getting bloated and drunk off of it; they're hoping we just continue to throw wealth, fame, and power at them.
partisan politics and consecutive term offices are serving to do nothing but make the rich richer and the elite eliter, all while lying their asses off to us and stomping on every chance for improvement or progress.
usually i feel like it is the lesser of a dozen or so evils; gets hard to juggle, and who knows in the end whether the one you thought was the lesser evil will actually turn out to be the mad-cackling overlord.
democrats and republicans annoy the hell out of me; i can't stand it when people marry themselves to a political party like they would a religion or a spouse. in fact, i think in a lot of ways, some people are more fanatically defensive of their political views than they are their own marriages, ignoring personality problems, criminal actions, and blatant ignorance, when they're more than irritated with those same (and lesser) qualities in their spouse.
i'm not sure why we haven't learned in all of these years how broken and useless partisan politics are. g. washington told us it would ruin us, but here we are, still trucking happily down that road. we complain about our crooked 'representatives' and their scheming, but go right on with the same old system.
do we think that they are going to change it? no, of course not. they're getting bloated and drunk off of it; they're hoping we just continue to throw wealth, fame, and power at them.
partisan politics and consecutive term offices are serving to do nothing but make the rich richer and the elite eliter, all while lying their asses off to us and stomping on every chance for improvement or progress.
sincerely irritated, aaron out.
Well, you really 'took the gloves off,' there... And I agree with all of it!
I'm kind of a libertarian socialist, so count me in with the "two party rejecters".
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--weigh the options, run through some 'what if's'... good stuff. 
